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Burning some olibanum/hojari/luban/frankincense with mid grade oud chips over coconut husk charcoal (nearly smokeless). Smell of Fanta, Incense and oud. This is the traditional Indian dhoopdaan dhoop=incense, daan=holder/keeper, which we use to scent homes or in pooja. Equivalent to Mubakhra. Natural scents never feel odd or even faintly usettling to the senses even if they are not according to one's preferences. So glad to have found Oud and also Ouddicts to share my passions with. Fragrant day all :)

Simple and lovely enjoy dear!

I love to burning hojari on electric burner the aroma take me to paradise ...
 

Oud Sina

Oud Beginner
This piece doesn't look like agarwood at all...
Hi Oud Sina... I have just looked closely at the photos - could not before as i was busy. To me this does not look like Agarwood let alone Kyara. Agarwood is lighter and the resinated parts do not look anything like the ones on your photos. That looks more like tar? Whatever it is, it looks interesting enough for you to maybe ask your local government botanical body or university to identify it.

Hi guys thankyou for dropping your ideas and wise opinions. That give me some ideas what to do next. As i said earlier nothing close to tree sap kemenyan, frankincense, mrrh. Im keeping my faith on behalf of Al Shareef Oud statement about Shaykh Al Rais about the chinese oud and its called The Qahshmari which is moist and sweet has something to do with it. Also keeping my strong faith from the chinese news online link below about the ancient Tibet soil agarwood. Please look closely to the honey wax, disintergrated oil ducts and how they come about the black resin. Ive look other trees nothing come close.

Shaykh Al Rais The Qahshmari and the Ancient Tibet Oud probably the closest to what i have. Im from Borneo and i have seen a centurian soil Aquilaria and they do look alot different as compare to young wood chips. Color changes with the soil it sit on. Oil ducts and resin lines very distinctive, compressed, disintegrated with time and reinfected from nesting insects and worm producing various smelland colors. Other tree have age ring and Aquilaria does not have one. These few reasons i believe its an agarwood species.

I totally agree they do look like what you think it is. God knows and its all come from Him. Thankyou with all His guidance and Im still keeping my faith close. Its true then what an ancient saying about 8 merits of lifespan to actually make use and appreciate this precious wood.

Again, im very grateful to meet and discuss among the best people in here. I do hope with His Guidance we all can actually benefits something from this forum, to diversify our thoughts and share common things to another level of what nature scents can offer to our Pineal gland.

Good day everyone and its incense time!
Cheers!

https://culture.ifeng.com/a/20150115/42942801_0.shtml

(I translated this chinese news to english version above. Please look closely to the images from link and tell me what you think.)
 

Oud Sina

Oud Beginner
@Oud Sina very interesting piece. would be awesome if our fellow seasoned members can chime in and shed light on this piece. perhaps tincturing a small bit of the wood and run gcms on it will give the definitive answer.

i would email the photos or the link to this forum to Dr. WS (kyarazen at gmail dot com) and also get his input. who knows, you may be sitting on a very precious piece, more so than you even think. a gift that could change your life that of your family and dear ones to you for years to come...
Thankyou for your suggestion Rasoul Salehi. I appreciated it.
 

Oud Sina

Oud Beginner
May be able to examine it under a microscope to determine what species it is. Fragrant woods include cherry, cedar and many more! All beautiful. All from the Creator. Much better than the smell of crap from a rodent, or undigested food from a whale... :p
I totally agree what you said Bilalw. But if i end up found one crappy whale fragment, i probably cash it, go holiday with friends and lots of Ouds fragrant in our bags.
 

Oud Sina

Oud Beginner
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Ref: https://culture.ifeng.com/a/20150115/42942801_0.shtml

The English translation Apps on my earlier post is better. Please refer to previous post.

Hard to believe these fragments actually come from an agarwood log. It has darker resin, full amber, crystallized resin, really moist and sweet yellow honeywax. Possible the moist and sweet referred by Shaykh Al Rais from earlier post. I believe China have their experts to claim the black resin is not a tar. Very moist, very difficult to produce, very rare on public eyes and very odd looking agarwood. Is it possible, yes. Let alone Kyara.
 
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Royalbengalouds

Resident Artisan
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Ref: https://culture.ifeng.com/a/20150115/42942801_0.shtml

The English translation Apps on my earlier post is better. Please refer to previous post.

Hard to believe these fragments actually come from an agarwood log. It has darker resin, full amber, crystallized resin, really moist and sweet yellow honeywax. Possible the moist and sweet referred by Shaykh Al Rais from earlier post. I believe China have their experts to claim the black resin is not a tar. Very moist, very difficult to produce, very rare on public eyes and very odd looking agarwood. Is it possible, yes. Let alone Kyara.
@Oud Sina , amazing article, talk about a sitting down with hot cup of ☕️& brain storming through this fascinating knowledge,thank you brother for making my night , there goes the sleep for tonight:oldman: :Cooler:
 
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Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
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Ref: https://culture.ifeng.com/a/20150115/42942801_0.shtml

The English translation Apps on my earlier post is better. Please refer to previous post.

Hard to believe these fragments actually come from an agarwood log. It has darker resin, full amber, crystallized resin, really moist and sweet yellow honeywax. Possible the moist and sweet referred by Shaykh Al Rais from earlier post. I believe China have their experts to claim the black resin is not a tar. Very moist, very difficult to produce, very rare on public eyes and very odd looking agarwood. Is it possible, yes. Let alone Kyara.

Great information there. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Clearly we cannot authenticate this wood on the forum thread so as Habz786 suggested, please approach @Kyarazen (kyarazen.com) or our esteemed members @Oud_learner and @acomfortingScent for further information on how to proceed with ascertaining whether this wood is Agarwood or something else.
 

Casto

Oud Beginner
Respected brother Rai Munir, a very interesting topic, and clearly you have done a lot of reading and pondering on what you have read, for the points you have raised is no extract from marketing gimmicks.

i. I hear and see your point clearly Oudh is an Arabic reference given, value and sacredness by Islam due to the Prophet PBUH utilising it as a incense. Therefore the term Oudh is wholly from that context.

ii. I can confirm from what has been passed to me, and what I have researched there is no reference to Kyara or Ky Nam in our heritage and literature of the old.

Ibn Baytaar mentions the following regarding types of Oudh;

قال الشيخ الرئيس: أجود أصناف العود المندلي ويجلب من وسط الهند عند قوم ثم الذي يقال له الهندي وهو جبلي ويفضل على المندلي بأنه لا يولد القمل وهو أعبق في الثياب، ومن الناس من لا يفرق بين المندلي والهندي الفاضل، ومن أفضل العود السمندوري وهو من سفالة الهند ثم القماري وهو صنف من السفالي، ومن بعد ذلك القاقلي والبري والقطفي والصيني ويسمى القشمري وهو رطب حلو وهو دون ذلك والحلالي والمانطاقي واللوالي والمربطاني والمندلي عامته جيدة ثم أجود السمندوري الأزرق


The Shaykh Al Rais said: The finest varieties of oudh is the Mandalee and it is brought from central India by the Qawm and then what is called Hindi and it is from mountains, preferable over Mandalee as it does not allow lice to breed in the clothes that it is applied on, and there are those who do not differentiate between Mandalee and Hindi, and the best oudh of Samandori, found in the lower areas of India and it is classified as Saaffili, and then the Qaqli, Berri, Qing and Chinese and it is called al-Qashmari, which is moist and native to that area the Mantaki, the Wali, the Berlani, the Mandalee.

Whilst they had exposure to many different oudhs we can not see a mention of Ky Nam or Kyara.

iii, even among the Japanese who have listened to Kyara notes in kodo sessions for centuries, even they did not come forward with kyara oil, as such the old Japanese references do not speak of an oil but an incense wood.

The concept of Kyara oil can be tackled in two ways. Oil from kyara wood, or oil smelling like kyara. The latter is the case with regards to what online vendors are selling. They are oils carrying some hint of a kyara smell and even in that case the brother has clarified that it is his take on what he feels is Kynamic/kyara like, so for another person it may not even have a slightest smell to kyara the incense experience.

iv, that is a very good question, Kyara is agarwood, but is it oudh in the real sense of the term? no because as we can see in the classic texts the Arabs do not speak of it and since the word is from their context, kyara is not in it. Can it be added today based on common species? yes it can, but is a new addition, yes.

Kyara has a larger number of fragrant compounds than the average agarwood and some compounds that are shared in kyara and other agarwoods, kyara are nearly double the intensity in those compounds. Does that mean it smells better not necessarily.

v, the claim that kyara oil is the epitome is only a singular narrative, since even in Japanese text it is the wood that is praised.

vi, no

vii, there are some that are shared, both from smell perspective and scientifically. I am sure you have already read this, but for completeness I will share it here https://www.kyarazen.com/scientific-literature-kyara/


I don't believe one can realistically challenge the quality, variety, complexity and beauty of what has come out of the Subcontinent for such a consistently long period. The whole bubble created around Kyara by miss using Chinese-Japanese value system, with regards to listening to scents, is easily see through once a person becomes a bit familiar with the marketing gimmicks. It is unfortunate though how abused the term kyara has become with some people having something kyara in every other oil as though their cousin grew them in their back yard. The reality of such abuse is, people then get confused between the real meaning and the gimmicky meaning. There is so much wonderful lessons that can be learnt from the Kodo philosophy of listening to the delicate notes and the humility in the whole process. It is a shame to see the misuse of that philosophy for the purpose of marketing.

In summary, no the kyara profile is not the pinnacle of scent, there are other more complex oudh woods both from a fulfilment perspective and a fragrance perspective, it just depends which context one is looking at this from.


Thank you
 
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Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
I'm interested to know more about this topic. I'm from Somalia and I met some people and they told me that they have found couple of trees that used to be traded as agarwood very long time ago. I went with these people to a remote mountains area to see the trees. We only found couple of the trees living and some dead trees. The living trees looked very much like to kynam tree illustrations on the website of kyarazen. We found an infected tree and cut the bark and found beneath the bark semi liquid soft substance with very strong bad smell. The substance found in the heartwood had gold yellow color. We took this substance which turned into a gold yellowish piece of wood. This piece of wood and some other woods of the dead trees we have collected look very much almost identical to agarwood kynam pictures on the internet.

I would like to ask if anyone can help me identify this.

Thank you


Do you have photos? Whatever you have seen, it cannot be agarwood as it simply does not grow in Somalia. We are still interested in identifying what it might be however!
 

Casto

Oud Beginner
Do you have photos? Whatever you have seen, it cannot be agarwood as it simply does not grow in Somalia. We are still interested in identifying what it might be however!

Dear Ouddict ,
Thank you for your response.

Please find here attached the pictures of our wood and comparison with agarwood kynam pictures on the internet.

By the way. The trees we found produce also resins which is white when fresh and turn into brown and after a while very black and it
 
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Casto

Oud Beginner
@Casto, did you heat/ burn it? If yes, would you please write about the aroma?

Hi Rai,

Yes I did burn it and it has just woody smell. We also distilled a little bit of oil from the wood. It was very little sticky pale yellow color and it smells like menthol and something like almond.
When the wood is totally burned into ash it leaves sticky yellow oil on the plate
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
Lovely photos @Casto, I advise you to send 0.1g samples to some of the vendors on this forum to have it evaluated. Also send off the oil (only 0.1g needed) for GC-MS test to a local laboratory - maybe in Kenya, but preferably to a university in Malaysia where they have agarwood experts.
 

Casto

Oud Beginner
Dear Ouddict,

Thank you for your advise. I'll do that. I tried to approach companies like kyarazen through several emails, but didn't get any response.

Please advise me which vendors I should send the samples to and who to get in contact with them, as many don't respond to emails.

Please also advise me on which university in Malaysia I should contact and provide me with their contact details if possible.

Sorry for asking all of this, but I'm new to the agarwood world and this forum and don't have any experience in regard to this.

Thank you again
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
Dear Ouddict,

Thank you for your advise. I'll do that. I tried to approach companies like kyarazen through several emails, but didn't get any response.

Please advise me which vendors I should send the samples to and who to get in contact with them, as many don't respond to emails.

Please also advise me on which university in Malaysia I should contact and provide me with their contact details if possible.

Sorry for asking all of this, but I'm new to the agarwood world and this forum and don't have any experience in regard to this.

Thank you again

No need to apologise at all Casto! That is what this forum is for... so, you can contact the Department of Forest Management, Universiti Putra Malaysia - their details can be found by Google.

As to vendors... there is a Resident Artisan section if you scroll down the forum page. Feel free to contact any of them, but the older more established ones who are involved in distillation at the source and have travelled to where the Oud is made are Imperial Oud @Faizal_p @Faheem @Abdullah, @RisingPhoenix, @Al Shareef Oudh
 
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