Kyara/Kynam: IS IT REALLY OUD?

Discussion in 'Art and Science of Oud' started by Rai Munir, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    For sure dear, will have more details and pictures for everyone here about the plantations and the scent profile and technically everything you need to know about it. even the medicinal part of it which is mentioned in almost any major old Chinese medicine book.
     
    Rai Munir and Oudamberlove like this.
  2. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    that is great :)
     
  3. Mr.P

    Mr.P Oud Fan

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    I was certain, of all the facts about agarwood that I have seen repeated (and come to accept), that the utter rarity and mysterious origins of kyara would hold water.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  4. powdernose

    powdernose Admin & Oud Sprite Staff Member

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    Thanks for posting your result.
    What precisely did you test?
    What was used as the internal standard? It looks to me as though it was the wrong choice as you'll note that the sum of the weight percentages only amounts to a ~9% total.
    It makes sense that an analysis of Kyara would predominantly consist of sesquiterpenes and hydroxylated sesquiterpenes,
    however from what I recall Kyara should contain the basic agarwood markers and then have additional kyara markers,
    from what I see, only a couple in this test are agarwood markers.
    Also, I believe kyara is rich in chromones, another element missing from your own test.


    I looked through your posted references, I don't think I saw a single common component.
    Am I missing something?

    Any work done in this direction would be very interesting to read through,
    I hope you keep us posted about any developments Ali Attar makes.

    A couple of sources have said that big auction houses have their own validation methods for kyara,
    I'm still looking for anybody who can link to the validation process used.

    Yes, the overuse and misuse of the term does annoy me.
     
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  5. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Over-emphasis has led to suspicions.

    With the passage of time, haziest notions are being brushed away.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  6. amanitamusc

    amanitamusc Whats this Oud About?

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    Do you know of any distillation of plantation kinam as of now?
    Thank you for all of the information.
     
  7. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    - kinam, kinam, kinam, many people/companies are doing eau de toilette with 100% chemical components and calling it kinam, companies are not responsible they always what to make money we are responsible of searching, asking, and learning about what a word really means .

    regards
     
  8. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    you are welcome sir, my pleasure yes there are few mainly 3 respectful ones specialized in kyara only if you ask any person working in agarwood in Vietnam will directly point them out, will not list of mention them here so I don't promote or advertise anything.
     
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  9. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    Actually it's funny when you study and read the old Chinese medicine books and ancient references that's talks about kinam, most people even many Oud experts dont' know that, believe it or not but real kinam is not burned for it's smell!
    if you ask the real top collectors of kinam in the world they will tell you, those who know this know what I'm talking about even thought to most people this sounds like a Riddle but an emperor kinam, or ancient kinam will be tested in two ways
    1- The behavior of the smoke when it's burned.
    2- The color of the smoke in a low lighting room.
    Don't have to take me word for it, it's mentioned in couple of book that talks about kinam, (ancient kinam).
     
    Hamza H likes this.
  10. powdernose

    powdernose Admin & Oud Sprite Staff Member

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    I wasn't sure as you started talking about cultivated 'kinam'.
    Also what type of kinam?

    In any case, as I mentioned,
    your test doesn't match the profile I recall for Kinam,
    and it doesn't match the profiles that you yourself referenced.

    As long as you are not the producer or directly linked commercially, you can list them.

    I'd heard of 1. before but not 2.
    What should the colour be? Or rather, please link to your resource.
    thanks
     
    Rai Munir likes this.
  11. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    interesting what did you heard ?
    I won't make it that easy for you guys, but I will tell you were you can find it
    1- Agarwood by Rozi Mohammed
    2- ong and Nguyen (2014)
     
  12. amanitamusc

    amanitamusc Whats this Oud About?

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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  13. Sproaty

    Sproaty Sproudy Staff Member

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  14. amanitamusc

    amanitamusc Whats this Oud About?

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    Thank you.
     
  15. powdernose

    powdernose Admin & Oud Sprite Staff Member

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    At no point was this clear!
    This is how you presented your report:
    I also asked point blank what precisely you tested and your reply was:
    "Kinam, kinam, kinam"

    Both statements are misleading.


    I already specified,
    that Kyara should contain the basic agarwood markers and then have additional kyara markers.
    As one example there is this Kyarazen article which lists a reference to a Chinese study on Kyara:
    https://www.kyarazen.com/gcms-of-kynam/


    Everything in that overview refers to components in agarwood oil and wood,
    there is zero reference to kyara.


    Yes, you've managed a single match, in your test that component is at 0.01%...

    That is not a component found in the kyara study you reference:
    https://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/23/11/2969/htm#B21-molecules-23-02969
    rather it is mentioned in the study but the actual reference is this one:
    https://www.researchgate.net/file.P...fe6&assetKey=AS:395028015927297@1471193426523
    which is with regard to regular agarwood not kynam.

    None of those are chromones.
    By the way, you can't just take one section of a chemical components name and make matches based on that partial name....
    Also worth noting that a GCMS of smoke will differ to a test of an acetone extract.

    And by the by, 1,2,4 triazoles are synthetic compounds
    "The 1, 2, 4-triazole ring is an ubiquitous structural feature of many synthetic compounds"
    https://japer.in/storage/models/art...8TQEaBxRIIDuC/a-review-on-1-2-4-triazoles.pdf

    What I read regarding kynam smoke is that the smoke stream should be thin and rise upwards straight like an arrow,
    without swirling before the apex or breaking into wisps.
     
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  16. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Sir, if source is some book or article, please mention that here. It will be beneficial for me. Please say it is other than Dr Rozi's book. :Roflmao:
     
  17. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    - you got that one correct, the smoke will go in a thin strait line that goes up to one meter traight in a closed "not heavy air circulated room", and the color of the smoke is greenish
    this was mentioned in
    1- agarwood by Rozi Mohamed page 160
    2- Ong HC, Nguyen Agarwood page 20 (as I recall as it's been few years)

    regards and greetings,
     
    Rai Munir likes this.
  18. Alex

    Alex Whats this Oud About?

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    there are hundreds of references and researches dear, and it is consistently increasing as many Asian and south east Asian research centers and universities are working with agarwood and trying to use for those components to be synthesized to make medicines and beauty products especially anti-fungi and anti-inflammatory products.
     
    Rai Munir likes this.

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