What do we feel about cost of Oud oil?

  • Way Overpriced

    Votes: 47 26.9%
  • High

    Votes: 79 45.1%
  • Unreasonable

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • Fair

    Votes: 45 25.7%
  • Cheap

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Way too cheap

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    175

Abdullah

Junior Member
i agree. you cant expect to take $5000 and buy a new top of the line ferrari with all the mods and cons. people have their budgets and their own reasons/opinions on how important the purchase is for them personally. there are good ouds available for every budget. i have no problem with vendors charging what they feel is a fair price, as long as everything is 100% pure. what does annoy me sometimes is claims made by vendors about an oil, they do a whole time consuming Hollywood writeup (which in itself i love to read), sometimes making veiled comments about others, but i then find the same oils sold by other vendors at half (and sometimes even less) the price.

but at the end of the day it is what each consumer trusts and which vendor they are happy with. there is nothing wrong with that. if we are happy with a purchase then that should be enough. i agree with the sentiments of Mr.P and other on here. it worth what someone is willing to pay for. if they buy it, like it and are happy with it then so be it. 'You Pays Your Money And Takes Your Choice'.........
 
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5MeO

Junior Member
The sellers claim that the cost of oud is not really in their hands - the cost of agarwood, which is determined by market economics out of the control of oud artisans, is what determines the cost of oud. I generally believe this to be true - we can all see how much the cost of agarwood has increased...

Now, with the cost of agarwood what it is, is the cost of oud relative to its production is still highly inflated, such that the sellers are making margins that are so high as to be unfair (if there is such a thing as "unfair" in an open market)? I doubt this, especially with when you factor in competition..

So, my answer to the poll question would be"extremely high" in terms of the cost of the oud - but I don't feel it is priced unfairly - generally I feel the artisans are being quite fair with how they price the oud, in terms of their margins etc..
 
When it comes to Oud Forums, I'm like a distiller, i take the well resinated posts, and distill good Oud knowledge oils from them;)

I know that I'm not the only one maxing-out cards to buy Oud, but we all make personal decisions for personal reasons. Those hidden stories are not often shared, hence they remain a person's private plight. I will share just a small part of my reason for dishing out dough for Oud: Oud is a helpful tool that takes me beyond the seen, into the unseen. That therapeutic value gives me the go-ahead to fill some of these gems into my treasure chest:rolleyes:
 
The second time I got curious about oud, about four years ago (first time was maybe eight or nine years ago, and it was a disaster, as I'd got my hands on something nasty! I still have it, it's still nasty, haha!), I started seeing stuff about Oriscent (Ensar) and Agar Aura, and the prices were in the 400 dollar range, and I just laughed. I was like, "Well, that's something I'm never going to experience". I mean, the cost seemed ludicrous to me. But then, my curiosity got the best of me, and I thought, "I'm just gonna try a sample, see what the fuss was about". Taha so kindly sent me three samples for the cost of one, and that was that!

Which doesn't really answer the poll question ;) I guess I think that oud is incredibly expensive... but worth it. My main issue is that I want to know the truth. I want to know that I truly am being charged a fair price. If, in the end, from the journey for the search for the tree, to the harvest, through government red tape, to distillation and production costs, shipping, to my door, etc, etc, it really does equal to X amount per bottle, then it's worth that to me.

If I was rich, and the fair price of oud was 5000 a bottle, I would pay that. Thankfully, it's not there yet! I do happily spend every spare cent on oud oil, and now agarwood too :)

As is the case with many of you, oud is not "just a scent". It enhances my life in so many ways. Hard to put a price tag on that.
 

Ammar

True Ouddict
...I guess I think that oud is incredibly expensive... but worth it. My main issue is that I want to know the truth. I want to know that I truly am being charged a fair price. If, in the end, from the journey for the search for the tree, to the harvest, through government red tape, to distillation and production costs, shipping, to my door, etc, etc, it really does equal to X amount per bottle, then it's worth that to me.

Well said :).
 

Abdullah

Junior Member
@5MeO began to mention the cost of the raw materials, agarwood, and how that influences the price of the resultant oils. One has to take into account the region, scarcity of wood from certain regions, grade of wood, etc. when making a comparison of relative price. Even among cultivated agarwood there are different grades and regions.
Some vendors focus more on producing oils from less costly raw materials, while some focus on producing oils from more costly raw materials and some may even have oils made from higher grade raw materials and from different regions that other vendors don't even have in their catalog.
When I look across the vendors and make an apples to apples comparison of their oils based on the type and grade of wood used, I see parity in pricing. As much as we all want it to be, there are no known good vendors making oils from comparable raw materials for half the price, it just isn't so.
I agree with what you say but I can guarantee it is the case. Hand on heart i am 1000% sure and could back it up. Its like an 'emperor's new clothes' scenario

But i do not want to get into one of these drawn out sagas flinging accusatioms hither and nither. Im sorry i mentioned anything. I will apologise if i offended anyone and we will agree to disagree.
 
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Habz786

Resident Artisan & Ouddict Co-Founder
The second time I got curious about oud, about four years ago (first time was maybe eight or nine years ago, and it was a disaster, as I'd got my hands on something nasty! I still have it, it's still nasty, haha!), I started seeing stuff about Oriscent (Ensar) and Agar Aura, and the prices were in the 400 dollar range, and I just laughed. I was like, "Well, that's something I'm never going to experience". I mean, the cost seemed ludicrous to me. But then, my curiosity got the best of me, and I thought, "I'm just gonna try a sample, see what the fuss was about". Taha so kindly sent me three samples for the cost of one, and that was that!

Which doesn't really answer the poll question ;) I guess I think that oud is incredibly expensive... but worth it. My main issue is that I want to know the truth. I want to know that I truly am being charged a fair price. If, in the end, from the journey for the search for the tree, to the harvest, through government red tape, to distillation and production costs, shipping, to my door, etc, etc, it really does equal to X amount per bottle, then it's worth that to me.

If I was rich, and the fair price of oud was 5000 a bottle, I would pay that. Thankfully, it's not there yet! I do happily spend every spare cent on oud oil, and now agarwood too :)

As is the case with many of you, oud is not "just a scent". It enhances my life in so many ways. Hard to put a price tag on that.

Yes i agree Chelsea thats a wise approach. The truth is what we are all searching for and i would be happy to spend my money with honest vendors even if it is expensive! The stages you mentioned are what a true Artisan in my view would have to do to truely produce a work of art from start to finish. I respect the venders who are hands on like Taha for example who is part of the jungle expeditions and sourcing of wood, distillation to curing. I think oils which are simply purchased off a trader should not be sold for 1000$'s of dollars as there has not been anywhere near as much effort to create the oil. Your simply taking someone else's work and putting your label on it. I also realised with my expensive oils im slightly shy when it comes to using them so i keep them for a special occasion :)
 

Ammar

True Ouddict
I agree with what you say but I can guarantee it is the case. Hand on heart i am 1000% sure and could back it up.

But i do not want to get into one of these drawn out sagas flinging accusatioms hither and nither. Im sorry i mentioned anything. I will apologise if i offended anyone and we will agree to disagree.


You are apologizing for what exactly Abdullah?! I think we all agree that one of the main strength here is the ability to talk openly keeping it in civilized manner as possible.
 

Ammar

True Ouddict
@5MeO began to mention the cost of the raw materials, agarwood, and how that influences the price of the resultant oils. One has to take into account the region, scarcity of wood from certain regions, grade of wood, etc. when making a comparison of relative price. Even among cultivated agarwood there are different grades and regions.
Some vendors focus more on producing oils from less costly raw materials, while some focus on producing oils from more costly raw materials and some may even have oils made from higher grade raw materials and from different regions that other vendors don't even have in their catalog.
When I look across the vendors and make an apples to apples comparison of their oils based on the type and grade of wood used, I see parity in pricing. As much as we all want it to be, there are no known good vendors making oils from comparable raw materials for half the price, it just isn't so.

PEARL,
How do you exactly compare the oils of venders objectively based on the type and grade of wood? Most of the time there is no direct visual assessment of the wood with the exception of Adam @feel-oud, only a description by the venders themselves which can be subjective. At the same time, there is no evidence that the oils offered with fairly lower prices are of lower wood grade, unless you trust your nose based on experience which is something else. Any thoughts?
 
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Ammar

True Ouddict

This is the debate brother. First of all I think most of us have no doubt about the integrity of the well-known vendors, but the point is how high the profit margin is, as I think this is the most dynamic and flexible factor that the vendor can manipulate accordingly which is totally fine and part of their right, and can be raised or lowered based on the advertising and the dominance of certain buyers who are willing to pay immediately whatever the price. Why are the olde oils listed by firdous are priced way much lesser than today price tags while most of them distilled approximately at the same time? I think it is because the increasing demands but I’m not sure. The other thing, assuming that less costly oils are made from less costly wood based on the price, although true most of the time, is partially right I believe. Take the last offerings by KZ for example, as well as Imperial Oud oils which they clearly stated in several of their page description that they were distilled from high grade, incense grade or even sinking grade. I just brought this point because I don’t want these vendors alike to lose their credits doing something exceptional for the oud community only because their oils are cheaper...totally no other intentions in my mind...Oops, I forgot to mention TW95 which is the crown of this category.

Regarding what you have replied Abdullah, I totally agree...only if the wood is clearly stated or approved of lower quality which is most of the time. Depending on gut and experience is something totally different and not a matter of discussion here.
 
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m.arif

Junior Member
Another factor to consider is the cost for distillation setup. Some employ a lot of additional sophisticated machinery (to control temperature of various things).

Also, some distilleries don't care much about the little details like monitoring temperature almost 24/7. Hence you get some oils that smell like burnt rubber/plastic , which probably signifies that at some point of the distillation the temperature went up too high. The time and energy to monitor the temp without sleep should be calculated as well.

Length of distillation definitely a factor as well. 4-7 days of distillation is probably standard for mass produced oils. Some artisanal oils can go to weeks, and even months of ongoing distillation. Cost? Yep.

Personally I feel to compare only raw material and age from one distiller to another, and compare the price, is inaccurate and require more factors to be included.

I've had a seller and distiller in Malaysia that says he microwaves his oils to get a darker colour and thicker consistency. compare this to meticulous, careful curing (which there are many techniques)..well cost should be calculated too.

Just my 2 cents
 

Ammar

True Ouddict
...Personally I feel to compare only raw material and age from one distiller to another, and compare the price, is inaccurate and require more factors to be included.


Good point but then the buyer has the right to look for the cheaper offering if the quality of wood is the same and subjectively the scent profile is close since the preciousness of the oil is behind the wood. The innovative technique only count when it adds something majestic to the oil creating something unique, Sultan series for example.
 
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m.arif

Junior Member
@Ammar Definitely true that the buyer has that right. No objections there. In fact there are vendors that sell more affordable ouds, less than even what Feel Oud offers. I have some of them myself as references and common use (being in Malaysia it's not that hard to get them). But then again, to the discernible nose, they will most probably say it's of different quality.

To me it's like, giving two pieces of identical quality raw diamond, have one master craftsman polish and cut it, and another piece to an average craftsman with mediocre skill..Generally speaking, the end results would indeed produce two items of different price.

For normal people who have families, at the end of the day there are living expenses to cover. If the innovative techniques require more equipment, more time, more work, somebody has got to pay for all that. Rationally speaking it also should be calculated in the cost of the oil, regardless whether a majestic element was added (unless of course the distiller is willing to sell some oils at a loss, just so more people get access to it)

One thing to ponder though, like how inventors of new technologies patent their product or design, or tailor made suits/clothing, I'm sure at some point or another the price they're charging includes the hardwork they went through to reach that level.

It's like a rant from graphic designers I read a while back, which goes something like this :

Customer : I want to request a design with attractive decorations and fonts, with equally astonishing colours that fit perfectly with the picture I'm giving
Designer : Sure. The charge will be $70 for each design
Customer : I accept
*** 10 minutes later ***
Designer : All done.
Customer : Very nice! But..I paid $70 for a soft copy design which took you only 10 minutes to make? I think I'm being overcharged!
Designer : It took me 10 years of hard work to be able to produce something this good in 10 minutes.

Sorry for the boring anecdote but that's how it goes. Is the designer over charging or not? Experience, investments in learning, mastering the craft, research, all come with a price (either material or otherwise). Now this point is very very subjective. A craftsman may charge extra for his workmanship, or he may not. Now if someone purchases wholesale (just reselling.no labour etc) $80 per tola of a common, accessible to many type of oud..and sells $600 per bottle with crazy marketing hype (which in this case is pure hype), yes that is indeed overpriced IMO. My current collected info on oud is unable to calculate justifiable factors that could reasonably add up the price that much.

But in the end, generally speaking, quality and rarity of wood does take a big chunk out of the cost, and this is usually the case.

Another thing to note.. I've found sellers saying a particular wood they're selling is a certain grade, but it's of a different grade to another oud trader. Incense grade to one, may not be the exact same to another..Just another factor to think about before purchasing first time from sellers with less known reputation and exposure.
 
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Abdullah

Junior Member
Good point but then the buyer has the right to look for the cheaper offering if the quality of wood is the same and subjectively the scent profile is close since the preciousness of the oil is behind the wood. The innovative technique only count when it adds something majestic to the oil creating something unique, Sultan series for example.

maybe a slight misunderstanding here. what i meant was when sometimes vendors buy oils in. by chance probably they will be from the same trusted artisan distiller and same distillation batch and wood. say for example the artisan ends up with 30 tolas of amazing oil. one vendor will say buy 10 tolas, another will 10 tolas, another 7 tolas and so on. one vendor might charge $750usd per 3ml while the other will charge $400 per 3ml or less.

sorry for any confusion from my original post.
 

Ammar

True Ouddict
maybe a slight misunderstanding here. what i meant was when sometimes vendors buy oils in. by chance probably they will be from the same trusted artisan distiller and same distillation batch and wood. say for example the artisan ends up with 30 tolas of amazing oil. one vendor will say buy 10 tolas, another will 10 tolas, another 7 tolas and so on. one vendor might charge $750usd per 3ml while the other will charge $400 per 3ml or less.

sorry for any confusion from my original post.

Abdullah, I think you quoted the wrong paragraph!
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
Abdullah, both you and m.arif make excellent and valid points. Especially what Abdullah says is pertinent and it's what I meant when talking about the democratisation of Oud.

However there is another aspect to this which Thomas on Gaharu mentioned about the true costs involved and he certainly also makes very valid points. The problem occurs when a vendor simply resells Oud at a very high price but obfuscates that fact by saying that he has been doing x,y,z when in fact it's just been bought from a contact. No issue if they reveal that as it's up to the consumer to decide if it represents good value.

By the way I'm not pointing fingers at ANY particular vendor here and recognise they all have families to feed and expenses to consider.
 

Abdullah

Junior Member
Abdullah, both you and m.arif make excellent and valid points. Especially what Abdullah says is pertinent and it's what I meant when talking about the democratisation of Oud.

However there is another aspect to this which Thomas on Gaharu mentioned about the true costs involved and he certainly also makes very valid points. The problem occurs when a vendor simply resells Oud at a very high price but obfuscates that fact by saying that he has been doing x,y,z when in fact it's just been bought from a contact. No issue if they reveal that as it's up to the consumer to decide if it represents good value.

By the way I'm not pointing fingers at ANY particular vendor here and recognise they all have families to feed and expenses to consider.
I agree with what you say. That's what i meant by 'hollywood writeups' sometimes i just get a bit annoyed when i read 'somethings' by 'some people' regrading islamic jurisprudence or about oud and anyone with common sense who reads it knows its BS. But the people who put trust in the vendors and don't know as much believe every word. I would like to say here that i would class myself with those who don't know as much. Sometimes i realise what has happend further along my Oudducation.

@Ammar sorry about the paragraph mixup
 

firdaous

Oud Kinamic
When our favourite artisans are involved in the process from A to Z (high distillation set up, raw materials choice etc...) I have absolutely no objection to pay the amount required (Thai Encens organic distillation, Sultan series)I just have to close my mouth and say Bravo but if it's not the case it's another story, KZ Malaysian $150, his true Mysore $40, Adam's hindis $190 and Ensar's tigerwood95 $295 were some great find thanks to our artists noses!
I think that we are all agree to say that it's totally impossible for those artists to manage all their oils releases...
And when I see a vendor sitting in front of his screen, double click and ordering X tolas for $200,$395 or 500 the tola and selling it $700 or $1700/3ml All I can say it's Bravo again...
 
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Faizal_p

Sulaym.co.uk
ok my 2p worth as a vendor. For us it was always and has always been a love for this strange oil and to revive a Sunnah of the prophet. As a muslim there is a very famous saying of our Beloved -
حبِّب إليَّ من دنياكم النساء والطيب ، وجعلت قرة عيني في الصلاة
“Two things of your world were made lovely to me, perfume and women; and the coolness of my eyes is in prayer.”
Women is highlighted here as in the ancient world women folk were treated as second class citizen, His message was to turn this on its head and give women an equal stature. Perfume on the other hand personified cleanliness, a huge facet of Islam. To be clean, to clean around you, to pray in cleanliness and with the best of scents was very dear to the early followers of Islam and this has transpired through history. (forgive me if any of this is wrong, any learned muslim may point out mistakes)
Therefore to get to my point, we do this first of all so we have Oud for ourselves and secondly we can spread this great practice of the prophet all across the world. It is a form of charity to offer someone perfume or if they smell it on your person. So for us we have to take these factors into account and price oils suitably. We have projects we are involved with directly, where we have purchased wood and helped someway in the distillation process, we have some oils we buy from particular distillers. Although everything we get we try for it to be unique and or exceptional. This means we have wasted a lot of money buying oils which are unsuitable in our eyes to offer to the general public. Whatever the case, we markup what is a reasonable amount, first priority is to cover our cost and secondly make enough to contribute to a new project. We have expenses regarding certification, website, promotion, boxes, bottles etc however we take no wages or dividends etc. Some vendors will rely on the sale of Oud as a means of sustenance, they will feed their family, run their shop, fuel their car etc with some of the profit. They can fund a lavish lifestyle, they can fund a humble lifestyle that's up to the individuals running that business.
Its absolutely inevitable the price of oud will reflect these elements, i guess at the end of the day there should be enough choice out there to facilitate consumers. Where i live in the UK i could drive 10 minutes and find maybe 5 or 6 shops all selling oud, musk, ambergris etc. Will the quality stack up to what we sell? Or more importantly are they feeding a consumer who wants to buy oud for £30/3ml, someone who cannot fathom Oud that costs £150/200, nevermind £400.
Different Horses for different courses as the saying goes...
 
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