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Looking for a certain kind of rose

James1

Oud Fanatic
I love a mixture of oud and rose, but I'm picky and I can't find the proper rose in pure form to mix with my own oud. I suppose it's a certain kind of rose I'm looking for but I don't know rose well enough to actually put into words what I'm looking for. I'm hoping someone on this forum can help.

There are certain rose-centered attars that I do like, but I've never smelled a pure rose that I like. I know for sure it's got nothing to do with the fact that it's in an attar, they problem is the rose itself.

What I'm looking for is a rose that smells deep and red and velvety/creamy, with some tartness but not too much. I appreciate complexity as well. I like sort of mellow rose. A little tartness is ok, but I really don't like rose that is super tart. It actually irritates my nose a bit and it's just not the scent I'm looking for.

These are the oils containing rose that I've smelled before.

EO Mélange Priveé SQ- this is by far the best rose I've smelled. I have a feeling the rose by itself is not widely available but this is more or less my ideal rose. If anyone does know where to get it I would love to have some.

EO Ward sultan attar - Also a very good rose. I think the rose in this attar would fit my needs well.

EO Royal ta'ifi - This is the perfect example of a great quality rose that I want nothing to do with. Way too tart, almost sharp. I can imagine it is valuable for use in attars but won't fit my personal use.

EO Purple rain - with this one it's harder to pick out the rose from the rest of the mixture. It seems similar to royal ta'ifi, maybe a little closer to what I want.

Musk rose and damask rose shibui from risingphoenix - These are similar enough that I'm lumping them together. They smell fine. Certainly not too tart but they don't punch enough at all. They're just fine.

Armenian rose from risingphoenix: The worst rose I've ever smelled. Super tart with almost none of the qualities I'm looking for. I don't even enjoy it a little bit. I see the value in it as an attar ingredient but it's definitely not for me. If anyone is looking for something like this, it's for sale.

So can anyone think of a particular rose that is worthy of being mixed with my precious oud? I'm essentially trying to make something with a similar style to Mélange Priveé SQ. I'd be mixing with ouds like Maroke SQ, Tigerwood Royale/1990, and other ouds in that category.
 

AbuTominaga

Oud Gangster
Hey there,

Different roses have different scent-qualities indeed.
Taifi can be sharp indeed, a more harmonized rose would be the Bulgarian rose of the same category.
Persian rose is different though, you have the copper distilled one (green) and the steel distilled one (yellow).

Green persian rose tends to be waxier than normal, velvety and more smooth. The yellow is a bit on the citrussy-fresh side.

However, I think what you might have picked in the above mentioned concoctions is more than one type of rose. As a perfumer, I use a rose accord depending on the oud oil I want to work with. and by accord, I don't necessarily mean synthetic, just a combo of a number of roses to come with the rose I have in mind.

Please note that the impact of rose on any oud is very strong. as a general advice, you'd want to test the ratios with minuscule amounts of rose/oud ratios till you find your sweet spot. and this can be very demanding in terms of the quantities costs and time.

another thing that's worth mentioning and important when you work with rose in perfumery; sometimes the rose will show and flourish after some time. after the concoction is made and after you let it set, let's say for 2 weeks or so, you'll be able to judge the correctness of the ratios and the end note you're looking for.

Hope this helps
 

Mr.P

Evoloudtionary Bioudlogist
Have you looked into extraction methods? Rose absolute (2 stage solvent extraction) is quite a bit softer than Rose distillate. CO2 extracts of Rose have yet another profile. From what you describe it sounds like you would like an absolute or carbon dioxide extract more than distillate.

eden botanicals has a variety of rose absolutes and co2 extracts that smell ok to me, and some are very different than others. They have co2 and absolute oils and sell sample sizes so i would look at their offerings and buy a bunch of samples.

I find the oils all to be of decent quality but not exceptional as far as the roses go. Strangely enough the finest Rose absolute I’ve ever smelled is from Alteya organics (Bulgarian).

The main thing I would add is if your vision of pure rose is based on what you smell in mukhallats, you may be in for a disappointment as there all kinds of things that can simulate or boost or modify the scent of rose.
 

James1

Oud Fanatic
Have you looked into extraction methods? Rose absolute (2 stage solvent extraction) is quite a bit softer than Rose distillate. CO2 extracts of Rose have yet another profile. From what you describe it sounds like you would like an absolute or carbon dioxide extract more than distillate.

eden botanicals has a variety of rose absolutes and co2 extracts that smell ok to me, and some are very different than others. They have co2 and absolute oils and sell sample sizes so i would look at their offerings and buy a bunch of samples.

I find the oils all to be of decent quality but not exceptional as far as the roses go. Strangely enough the finest Rose absolute I’ve ever smelled is from Alteya organics (Bulgarian).

The main thing I would add is if your vision of pure rose is based on what you smell in mukhallats, you may be in for a disappointment as there all kinds of things that can simulate or boost or modify the scent of rose.
I at least know kind of what rose can smell like. I have had some very simple attars with just a few ingredients with a wonderful rose so I know I'm not too far off.

What is that Bulgarian rose like? I am definitely looking for quality. I'm not worried about the price, I just want the best.
 

DubOudh

Aster Oudh
Recently, while walking through the rose garden here in Dublin's Botanic gardens after some rain....I detected a beautiful mixture of scents wafting through the air.
That beautiful scent of roses after lite rain is what I am always looking for in a rose scent.
Auroaroma has a lovely rose at the moment..not sure if it's Bulgarian.
 

AbuTominaga

Oud Gangster
Recently, while walking through the rose garden here in Dublin's Botanic gardens after some rain....I detected a beautiful mixture of scents wafting through the air.
That beautiful scent of roses after lite rain is what I am always looking for in a rose scent.
Auroaroma has a lovely rose at the moment..not sure if it's Bulgarian.
Have you tried using rose with a merauke oil? This is one of my fave combos. The merauke would give you that damp soil-after rain feeling.
 

DubOudh

Aster Oudh
Have you tried using rose with a merauke oil? This is one of my fave combos. The merauke would give you that damp soil-after rain feeling.
I have not yet Abu Tominaga...But I must look into it now that you mention it....
Is it sold separately as a stand alone oil?
 

OCDbotanicals

Oud Beginner
Have you looked into extraction methods? Rose absolute (2 stage solvent extraction) is quite a bit softer than Rose distillate. CO2 extracts of Rose have yet another profile. From what you describe it sounds like you would like an absolute or carbon dioxide extract more than distillate.

eden botanicals has a variety of rose absolutes and co2 extracts that smell ok to me, and some are very different than others. They have co2 and absolute oils and sell sample sizes so i would look at their offerings and buy a bunch of samples.

I find the oils all to be of decent quality but not exceptional as far as the roses go. Strangely enough the finest Rose absolute I’ve ever smelled is from Alteya organics (Bulgarian).

The main thing I would add is if your vision of pure rose is based on what you smell in mukhallats, you may be in for a disappointment as there all kinds of things that can simulate or boost or modify the scent of rose.
Hi Mr P.,

I just checked Alteya Organics website. They have several options in the Otto or essential oils areas. Can you provide any further details. I'd like to order a sample.
 

AbuTominaga

Oud Gangster
I have not yet Abu Tominaga...But I must look into it now that you mention it....
Is it sold separately as a stand alone oil?
Yes. Merauke is a Port in Papua which became the name of origin of most Filaria and Ledermanii agarwood species oils.

A number of vendors stock Merauke oils I believe. I also do @The Oud Lab . I enjoy it the most with Persian Rose (Green and Yellow).
 

SOB111

Oud Beginner
I love a mixture of oud and rose, but I'm picky and I can't find the proper rose in pure form to mix with my own oud. I suppose it's a certain kind of rose I'm looking for but I don't know rose well enough to actually put into words what I'm looking for. I'm hoping someone on this forum can help.

There are certain rose-centered attars that I do like, but I've never smelled a pure rose that I like. I know for sure it's got nothing to do with the fact that it's in an attar, they problem is the rose itself.

What I'm looking for is a rose that smells deep and red and velvety/creamy, with some tartness but not too much. I appreciate complexity as well. I like sort of mellow rose. A little tartness is ok, but I really don't like rose that is super tart. It actually irritates my nose a bit and it's just not the scent I'm looking for.

These are the oils containing rose that I've smelled before.

EO Mélange Priveé SQ- this is by far the best rose I've smelled. I have a feeling the rose by itself is not widely available but this is more or less my ideal rose. If anyone does know where to get it I would love to have some.

EO Ward sultan attar - Also a very good rose. I think the rose in this attar would fit my needs well.

EO Royal ta'ifi - This is the perfect example of a great quality rose that I want nothing to do with. Way too tart, almost sharp. I can imagine it is valuable for use in attars but won't fit my personal use.

EO Purple rain - with this one it's harder to pick out the rose from the rest of the mixture. It seems similar to royal ta'ifi, maybe a little closer to what I want.

Musk rose and damask rose shibui from risingphoenix - These are similar enough that I'm lumping them together. They smell fine. Certainly not too tart but they don't punch enough at all. They're just fine.

Armenian rose from risingphoenix: The worst rose I've ever smelled. Super tart with almost none of the qualities I'm looking for. I don't even enjoy it a little bit. I see the value in it as an attar ingredient but it's definitely not for me. If anyone is looking for something like this, it's for sale.

So can anyone think of a particular rose that is worthy of being mixed with my precious oud? I'm essentially trying to make something with a similar style to Mélange Priveé SQ. I'd be mixing with ouds like Maroke SQ, Tigerwood Royale/1990, and other ouds in that category.
Im curious about your experience with EO Melange Privee SQ. I've recently acquired it and think it is very very good. However, I am struggling to detect much of the rose - it seems that the Burmese oud used is about 80-90% of the experience.
Is your experience more rose forward than mine?
 

James1

Oud Fanatic
It's very oudy but the rose is definitely pretty strong. After an hour or two the rose is almost completely gone and it just smells like oud.
 
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