Dusty notes on dry down

[Rasoul Salehi]

hi all

Hoping the more experienced users and those in the trade can shed light on how do the dusty (sawdust shavings, cardboard powder) dry down notes come to be on some oils. Is it region or agar variety dependent? Distillation? Curing? ...

Who likes these notes and who finds it a fault?

I personally don't enjoy them. The scent itself is ok but the tactile sensation deep in the nostrils is not. It dries out my sinuses and the very back of my palate and I don't enjoy the sensation. Sadly some of my fav oils (on attack or development phase) have this dusty, drying finish to them.

 

[Rai Munir]

Wow, interesting, brother Rasoul. I raised my hand when I read the question about liking 'dusty' notes or considering it a 'fault'. Well, I would like say I personally don't crave for this particular profile, though I don't consider it a fault as well. This same note I like in Khus, and Mitti oils.

Well, I am of the view that almost all or at least majority of Chinese oud oils emit this profile. Not just emit, rather it is the nucleus of those oils. Therefore, I don't find any extremely subtle or immensely gigantic differences in so called Chinese oud oils other than prices. Prices are not 'dusty', but 'heaven kissing'. Chinese, Merauke, Papua, Hainan, Borneo, Keyen etc. (First five names of places, not oud oils. PLEASE mark it.) all are loaded with dust. I myself wear all these Oud oils, but when I don't have to concentrate on Oud. Therefore, I name such oils 'perfume-y oud oils or dear candies'. This very tone or profile you mentioned is very much potent and beautiful in Khus. This dustiness is nowhere in the OUD- Hindi/ Meghalaya/ Assamese/ Burmese (for me). A couple of hours ( two or three or five decades are not more than an hour in the history of Oud) before this dusty ouds were nowhere in Oud Laden Cultures. It is digital oud profile for us. After all our wrists and necks have remained drenched in perfumes. So it is a kind of reminiscence or nostalgia.

If you have Khus or Mitti Oil, they are earthy, gracefully dusty and soily. Well, in Ouds, it is NO oud or NON-oudy trait. Wearing and loving is something else.

 

[Ammar]

Wow, interesting, brother Rasoul. I raised my hand when I read the question about liking 'dusty' notes or considering it a 'fault'. Well, I would like say I personally don't crave for this particular profile, though I don't consider it a fault as well. This same note I like in Khus, and Mitti oils.

Well, I am of the view that almost all or at least majority of Chinese oud oils emit this profile. Not just emit, rather it is the nucleus of those oils. Therefore, I don't find any extremely subtle or immensely gigantic differences in so called Chinese oud oils other than prices. Prices are not 'dusty', but 'heaven kissing'. Chinese, Merauke, Papua, Hainan, Borneo, Keyen etc. (First five names of places, not oud oils. PLEASE mark it.) all are loaded with dust. I myself wear all these Oud oils, but when I don't have to concentrate on Oud. Therefore, I name such oils 'perfume-y oud oils or dear candies'. This very tone or profile you mentioned is very much potent and beautiful in Khus. This dustiness is nowhere in the OUD- Hindi/ Meghalaya/ Assamese/ Burmese (for me). A couple of hours ( two or three or five decades are not more than an hour in the history of Oud) before this dusty ouds were nowhere in Oud Laden Cultures. It is digital oud profile for us. After all our wrists and necks have remained drenched in perfumes. So it is a kind of reminiscence or nostalgia.

If you have Khus or Mitti Oil, they are earthy, gracefully dusty and soily. Well, in Ouds, it is NO oud or NON-oudy trait. Wearing and loving is something else.

Brother @Rai Munir,
I know what type of notes you've meant but you went so Kamekazi on other non-Hindi types of oils as usual LOL!

I think @Rasoul Salehi is talking about a specific dusty powdery pollen-like sawdust aroma sometimes with dash of floral, mintiness or fruitiness usually in the drydown of Indonesian, Malaysian, Sri Lankan, Bornean, Cambodi and Thai oils and also with but less pronounced in Merauke oils which go more creamy sandalwoody patchouli/vetiver-like, Vietnamese which go more fruity bitter wood and Chinese which go more flowery minty wood.

Drydown note that I hate so much to the level I usually scrub it and I don't even include in my assessment of oils. Unfortunately that's what make oud oil "long lasting and still there after washing my hand multiple times" and many people think it's part of the oil aroma while in reality it's poor quality note IMO that the low quality as well as the high quality oils will end at it without discrimination. I would take vintage Azzaro PH drydown over it at any time.

I started selling my oud oils because of it...

 

[Rai Munir]

I know what type of notes you've meant but you went so Kamekazi on other non-Hindi types of oils as usual LOL!

O NO NO, dearest Ammar. I will wear Papua region oud, and I have been enjoying that for a couple of months. I am not lying!

a specific dusty powdery pollen-like pencil's shaving sawdust aroma sometimes with dash of floral, mintiness or fruitiness usually in the drydown

Therefore I name them dear candies. Well, in certain nowadays-oud oils, these aspects are dominant. Now they are ouds, but oud masters never consider them so. But I love wearing it. Dearest Ammar, masters means by birth masters and for generations.

Chinese which go more flowery minty wood

Minty and minute-y.

Drydown note that I hate so much to the level I usually scrub it and I don't even include in my assessment of oils.

Very right. I love Oud Assam Organic. It just gets light after hours, but the first wave stays and stays. If Oud is excellent, it never breaks down on the way to zenith. In my post I said about certain oils that never limits the horizons of Oud within the walls of opening, middle, dry down syndrome.

and many people think it's part of the oil aroma while in reality it's poor quality note IMO

Poorest one. Oud is not Delux Weather-sheet Paint that has a dry down phenomenon.

I would take vintage Azzaro PH drydown over it at any time

If I present this Oud to a master in India or an Arab, old and living in interior, I won't be able to get back alive. These are perfumes. THOUGH I LIKE THEM A LOT.

I started selling my oud oils because of it...

I have stopped buying any oil that has minty floral-y and dusty notes. I have tried maximum, and learnt better return to the world of scents (perfumes). You made me remind Azzaro. Heavy. Dusty. Chocolaty.

But it doesn't mean I don't like them. I just consider them A class oils with B class notes, and C class dry down.

Kamekazi

! Gradation is there. I just mentioned gradation as per my information and experience. Thus it is just for me.

I will distill pencil shavings soon.

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

@Rai Munir @Ammar ty to both of you for your input. Ammar is right. The dusty (sawdust) quality I am talking about isn't so much a scent like in vetiver but a physical tactile sensation. The scent of dusty antique books I like actually and I get them even on attack of some older oils.

I get a small similar sensation in the nostrils and back of the palate when smoking low grade chips wth lots of visible white wood. I am thinking it likely has to do with inclusion of white wood in the distils ion batch or a good amount of lower grade mixed with top.

I am recovering from a cold and haven't put on any oil for couple days. Will gather list of oils that have this dusty finish and report back.

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

I wonder if it is a walla pasta thing. I should mention that minus the finish I love the opening and mid of walla patta. From EO SS (only one without the sawdust dry down) to ASO walla patta wood chunks itself to AA harita and the two IO SP and ADHII. Literally all but EO have that sawdust dry down. I have to go wash up good or reapply oil to escape that finish. A giant shame because not only the above are one of my very few full bottle purchases but also b/c I a, stuck loving the opening of gyrinops.

I wasn't terribly disappointing noted with this note in AA Harita and IO sri pada since after all they are Intro priced oud oils. I am even ok with the ASO chuncks. I just do lower temp heating and helps escape that saw dusty tactile sensation in back of throat and deep nostrils. But I thought theIO ADHII would escape the dry meanies. Nope. Wishful thinking...

Anyone wishes to chime in? Is there something around gyrinops itself? Is it the soaking?

I just got my nose back after a cold. So I'll be reporting back on this thread with other oils that give me this tactile drying sensation on finish.

AA duo kiyosmi and kenmei don't. Already know that for sure.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

I wonder if it is a walla pasta thing. I should mention that minus the finish I love the opening and mid of walla patta. From EO SS (only one without the sawdust dry down) to ASO walla patta wood chunks itself to AA harita and the two IO SP and ADHII. Literally all but EO have that sawdust dry down. I have to go wash up good or reapply oil to escape that finish. A giant shame because not only the above are one of my very few full bottle purchases but also b/c I a, stuck loving the opening of gyrinops.

I wasn't terribly disappointing noted with this note in AA Harita and IO sri pada since after all they are Intro priced oud oils. I am even ok with the ASO chuncks. I just do lower temp heating and helps escape that saw dusty tactile sensation in back of throat and deep nostrils. But I thought theIO ADHII would escape the dry meanies. Nope. Wishful thinking...

Anyone wishes to chime in? Is there something around gyrinops itself? Is it the soaking?

I just got my nose back after a cold. So I'll be reporting back on this thread with other oils that give me this tactile drying sensation on finish.

AA duo kiyosmi and kenmei don't. Already know that for sure.

Hi Rasul,

I smelt all IO's (my fav is Sri Pada) for me the most soaked of them must be less than 1 week, I dont know if Taha is a wood soaker...

I think you should ask Ensar how long SS was soaked and you will certainely get the answer...

As for the wood, the few walla patta I burnt, would describe it as ripe bananas into carton box smell basicaly (without the nuances I mean I stay basic...) maybe it's or is part of the dusty smell you re talking about ?

 

[F4R1d0uX]

From what I smelt, I can tell you Ensar is a wood soaker but I smelt like 5 or 6 of his oils ...

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

I wonder if it is a walla pasta thing. I should mention that minus the finish I love the opening and mid of walla patta. From EO SS (only one without the sawdust dry down) to ASO walla patta wood chunks itself to AA harita and the two IO SP and ADHII. Literally all but EO have that sawdust dry down. I have to go wash up good or reapply oil to escape that finish. A giant shame because not only the above are one of my very few full bottle purchases but also b/c I a, stuck loving the opening of gyrinops.

I wasn't terribly disappointing noted with this note in AA Harita and IO sri pada since after all they are Intro priced oud oils. I am even ok with the ASO chuncks. I just do lower temp heating and helps escape that saw dusty tactile sensation in back of throat and deep nostrils. But I thought theIO ADHII would escape the dry meanies. Nope. Wishful thinking...

Anyone wishes to chime in? Is there something around gyrinops itself? Is it the soaking?

I just got my nose back after a cold. So I'll be reporting back on this thread with other oils that give me this tactile drying sensation on finish.

AA duo kiyosmi and kenmei don't. Already know that for sure.

@Rasoul

I think you have answered your own question. If the oil shares this characteristic with the wood, then that can't be an introduced scent because both oil and wood has it.

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

Hi Rasul,

I smelt all IO's (my fav is Sri Pada) for me the most soaked of them must be less than 1 week, I dont know if Taha is a wood soaker...

I think you should ask Ensar how long SS was soaked and you will certainely get the answer...

As for the wood, the few walla patta I burnt, would describe it as ripe bananas into carton box smell basicaly (without the nuances I mean I stay basic...) maybe it's or is part of the dusty smell you re talking about ?

BINGO! cardboard scent (now that you said it, is more accurate than sawdust note) but also inhaling small fine dust particles of it is the sensation that i get.

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

@Rasoul

I think you have answered your own question. If the oil shares this characteristic with the wood, then that can't be an introduced scent because both oil and wood has it.

partially. another more resinated piece of the walla patta from yourself did NOT have this cardboard powder/sawdust quality. and re-trying both ADHII and Sri Pada from @imperialoud again showed minor (not enough to bug me) notes in sri pada but quite bit more on the ADHII. total shame cause the opening note of the ADHII is so fantastic and delicious. i do know as per communication with Faizal that ADHII was steam distillation, so perhaps that has something to do with it. hoping for IO to share their experience and hopefully more details on this.

i will specificaly look for this note sensation in other oils and report back.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

BINGO! cardboard scent (now that you said it, is more accurate than sawdust note) but also inhaling small fine dust particles of it is the sensation that i get.

Lol ! I got it then it's the wood 100%
Ask @Alkhadra if you get less particules inhaling when burning heartwood as the fibers get denser and I'm close to confirm you SS is soaked...

The topic you raise is actualy very interesting to make people having a true idea of what is genuine wood smell and what are auxiliary notes ...

 

[Faizal_p]

@Rasoul Salehi I've just applied AD II now to try and detect what it is that's providing this drying feeling. If it was due to quality of wood then would be much more apparent in SP, not to say that was bunk wood but ad2 was exceptional quality wood, we could only run a small pot which holds 12/15 kg max.
Perhaps particular terpenes extracted react to your nose lining and cause this sensation. I also wonder if it's an age thing as these 2 were distilled end of last year and perhaps need a little longer for the oil to settle properly.
If it's to do with hydro or steam then I guess Sinharaja (steam distilled) may cause this effect, I'll send you a sample of this to ascertain this hypothesis.
I guess the easiest way would be to gcms test the oils that cause this and see what comes up in higher concentration.
Can anybody else who has AD2 chip in with what you smell and feel?

 

[Oudamberlove]

It's the Walla Patta!
But other regions exhibit the same effect, and there a variety of different "effects" that oud can have on our senses, both tactile and mental

The "Fine Art" of "Oud Appreciation" requires a certain amount of "Focus"
Focusing on the scent, and blocking-out distractions/effects
However, this may not be an easy task, especially with mental effects because our sense of smell is connected to other senses.....it can get complicated.
Like if a certain note is associated to a bad memory

On the bright side, maybe Walla Patta can be incorporated into a medicine that can help clear sinuses

 

[AbasFrag]

I don't know if I got your note description. But I think that note is a part from walla patta. Walla patta without that is not walla patta to me. I have different grades, from low quality to sinking. All share that note that I love.


If you take the wood and soak the life out of it and then make an oil, this I guess would give less from that note.


I've tried most of the IO walla patta oils and really they are the best I've tried from that region. So close to the actual burning, each one of them depending on how you burn

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

@Rasoul Salehi I've just applied AD II now to try and detect what it is that's providing this drying feeling. If it was due to quality of wood then would be much more apparent in SP, not to say that was bunk wood but ad2 was exceptional quality wood, we could only run a small pot which holds 12/15 kg max.
Perhaps particular terpenes extracted react to your nose lining and cause this sensation. I also wonder if it's an age thing as these 2 were distilled end of last year and perhaps need a little longer for the oil to settle properly.
If it's to do with hydro or steam then I guess Sinharaja (steam distilled) may cause this effect, I'll send you a sample of this to ascertain this hypothesis.
I guess the easiest way would be to GCMS test the oils that cause this and see what comes up in higher concentration.
Can anybody else who has AD2 chip in with what you smell and feel?

i want to publicly thank you and congratulate you on your post. other suppliers may have turned defensive or shut down if god forbid someone has something negative to say. on the contrary, I truly admire your sincere attitude and genuine will to learn what is at play here and for all of us to learn something. bravo and thank you.

as mentioned i just got my nose back after more than a few days of battling a cold. ill try different oils and report back what i find.

for now a quick recap:
3 of 4 walla patta oils made with hydro or steam distillation show this snorting dried cardboard fiber note and sensation. ADHII has more of it, so mybe just maybe and perhaps steam distilation has something to do with this. and or combo of steam and walla patta wood.

EO Suriranka senkoh as another sri lankan, does NOT have this effect but i think it was a super low temp, rather avant garde distillation.

as for the actual wood chunks, i have one sample only from respected ASO and on mica over charcoal a less resinated piece emitted the same notes, BUT a second try with a heavily resinated piece over electric burner at lower tempreture did NOT.

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

I don't know if I got your note description. But I think that note is a part from walla patta. Walla patta without that is not walla patta to me. I have different grades, from low quality to sinking. All share that note that I love.


If you take the wood and soak the life out of it and then make an oil, this I guess would give less from that note.


I've tried most of the IO walla patta oils and really they are the best I've tried from that region. So close to the actual burning, each one of them depending on how you burn

i can see that and i can relate. both sri pada and ADHII are terrific and very much show the same notes as when heating walla patta wood.

have you tried EO surirenka senkoh? if not and if it fits the bill for you i can wholeheartedly very strongly recommend it to any and all walla patta lovers. it is an even more ethereal and lithe (not light) version of ADHII. less florals, less fruit, more cooling notes and more minimal. truly a case of less is more. it is hands down my top 3 oils at the moment and likely in the long haul.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

i want to publicly thank you and congratulate you on your post. other suppliers may have turned defensive or shut down if god forbid someone has something negative to say. on the contrary, I truly admire your sincere attitude and genuine will to learn what is at play here and for all of us to learn something. bravo and thank you.

as mentioned i just got my nose back after more than a few days of battling a cold. ill try different oils and report back what i find.

for now a quick recap:
3 of 4 walla patta oils made with hydro or steam distillation show this snorting dried cardboard fiber note and sensation. ADHII has more of it, so mybe just maybe and perhaps steam distilation has something to do with this. and or combo of steam and walla patta wood.

EO Suriranka senkoh as another sri lankan, does NOT have this effect but i think it was a super low temp, rather avant garde distillation.

as for the actual wood chunks, i have one sample only from respected ASO and on mica over charcoal a less resinated piece emitted the same notes, BUT a second try with a heavily resinated piece over electric burner at lower tempreture did NOT.

Take your post as an interresting and informative subject.

Now I take another bet AD2 is the less soaked of them all, and under your cover @Faizal_p : steam will be dryier and needs far more aging than hydro.

Anyway what I suggest you very humbly is to decant like 0.2 ml into a classical vial and forget it about like 1 month and try the oil from the vial and share your feelings I think you will be surprised

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

Take your post as an interresting and informative subject.

Now I take another bet AD2 is the less soaked of them all, and under your cover @Faizal_p : steam will be dryier and needs far more aging than hydro.

Anyway what I suggest you very humbly is to decant like 0.2 ml into a classical vial and forget it about like 1 month and try the oil from the vial and share your feelings I think you will be surprised

good idea. will do. micro-oxidation could do wonders. seen it before and i am sure i will see it again.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

good idea. will do. micro-oxidation could do wonders. seen it before and i am sure i will see it again.

Will take 3rd and last bet, Im sure it will give the result you wanted to have and then you will just have to stach the bottle away and wait for the day ...

PS : I already done it 2 months ago just will not spoil