Australian Agarwood Oil!

[Mr.P]

check out what I stumbled upon...


https://newmountain.com.au/products/australian-agarwood-essential-oil

I didn’t know this was a thing yet!

 

[Joe King]

check out what I stumbled upon...


https://newmountain.com.au/products/australian-agarwood-essential-oil

I didn’t know this was a thing yet!

Ahh homegrown oud I think @RisingPhoenix mentioned this was happening soon.

 

[Habz786]

Would be very interesting to smell this....whats the nearest Oud producing reigon to Australia? PNG? Its not cheap either but im sure @Joe King will get hold of a sample

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Ahh homegrown oud I think @RisingPhoenix mentioned this was happening soon.

From what I understand, they are transplanted Vietnamese Crassna trees that are being grown there in northern Australia. I don't think they are producing anything at the moment - I think the oils that have been produced are just trial runs.

Considering most plantation oils being produced large scale...I wouldn't expect anything too transcendental to be produced on location. Might have some luck if purchasing wood and custom / artisan distilling it with some control over the wood quality used.

 

[Taha]

Aha, so they have finally started releasing their products.
What I know is that they had hired a seasoned Cambodian consultant, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used Vietnamese saplings (and consultants) as well. Australians cut no corners, and they are really thorough. Their santalum album, premium mango, and other plantations are proof of that.

That Cambodian guy, by the way, saw lots of ancient natural agarwood in Queensland and they appear to be Aquilaria Filaria of the PNG and Filipino (curly/twirly leaf) type.
Of course, the Australian agriculture department is equally good at regulating the trade of jungle products as they are at plantation efforts.

 

[Shabby]

Just from a superficial perspective, the wood and the colour of the oil look very attractive to me.

 

[Mr.P]

Well anyone with $300 need speculate no longer (the link is to bottles of one such oil actually available to purchase). Wish I could do it myself.

 

[Al Hashimi]

Aha, so they have finally started releasing their products.
What I know is that they had hired a seasoned Cambodian consultant, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used Vietnamese saplings (and consultants) as well. Australians cut no corners, and they are really thorough. Their santalum album, premium mango, and other plantations are proof of that.

That Cambodian guy, by the way, saw lots of ancient natural agarwood in Queensland and they appear to be Aquilaria Filaria of the PNG and Filipino (curly/twirly leaf) type.
Of course, the Australian agriculture department is equally good at regulating the trade of jungle products as they are at plantation efforts.

Yes I remember the discussion we had on this, earlier in the year... almost impossible to get hold of any wood from the jungle however. Probably a good thing.

 

[Taha]

Oh yeah you're right, I remember now we did.

However, I would disagree about it being a good thing.
I am 100% convinced that there is zero harm to the environment / specie survival even if, let's say, tomorrow EVERY single agarwood tree over 20 years of age, in every single agarwood country, was chopped down.
And I can present, as evidence to support this seemingly radical anti-environment proposition, actual footage from inside various jungles (three to be exact, after checking my phone), showing the sheer abundance of agarwood saplings that will grow to replace the trees that were chopped down.

In my humble opinion, no one gains from governments outright disallowing the harvesting of wild agarwood. Yes, the trade should be regulated, but in favor of protecting/monitoring the folks involved in the trade. I've said it before and I'll say it again, agarwood doesn't need protection. It proliferates so fast... its like having cockroaches listed under endangered species. They ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

What the Australian government can gain from, is issuing quota permits (i.e. revenue for them) allowing for regulated felling of agarwood trees. Win-win. They get money. And we get to smell what we have never smelled before... native Australian agarwood.

Tasmanian devils, kangaroos, and all sorts of other fascinating Australia-specific species of life, you just know Australian agarwood would bring something new (and super ) to the table.

Back to the website though... is that in fact Australian agarwood? They make reference to plantations in Laos, so I wonder if the currently available products are from Laotian plantations, and the Australian-grown agarwood products will maybe come down the road.

 

[Taha]

Btw, if the forum could face legal issues due to a member (me) posting pro-felling and anti-CITES rhetoric please let me know, I can delete the post.
I posted some of this (and more) about a week ago, but deleted that as well.

 

[Al Hashimi]

Btw, if the forum could face legal issues due to a member (me) posting pro-felling and anti-CITES rhetoric please let me know, I can delete the post.
I posted some of this (and more) about a week ago, but deleted that as well.

You’d have to ask @jensz and @riviera274

As for me, my personal opinion is that CITES and IFRA are a joke and counterproductive... but the law is the law so have to comply were we have to .

 

[Joe King]

That Cambodian guy, by the way, saw lots of ancient natural agarwood in Queensland and they appear to be Aquilaria Filaria of the PNG and Filipino (curly/twirly leaf) type.
Of course, the Australian agriculture department is equally good at regulating the trade of jungle products as they are at plantation efforts.

I knew I should have followed my dream of being a park ranger

 

[Taha]

Well hey, we all miss Steve Irwin, soooo... watcha waiting for?!

By the way, last year there were talks of a new documentary on Agarwood, this time primarily focusing on Australia (since the project was to be spearheaded by an Australian production company) but also the Middle East and of course the supply-side (SE Asia), and NatGeo was one of the two main candidates for airing. I forgot the name of the second one.
Dunno what happened, but it seems it didn't really go anywhere and the whole thing just fizzled out.

 

[Habz786]

Nice to hear from you @Taha. Im sure @Al Shareef Oudh mentioned some sort of involvment in this?

 

[Taha]

Oh.. I wasn't aware, but that would be neat.

 

[powdernose]

I am 100% convinced that there is zero harm to the environment / specie survival even if, let's say, tomorrow EVERY single agarwood tree over 20 years of age, in every single agarwood country, was chopped down.
And I can present, as evidence to support this seemingly radical anti-environment proposition, actual footage from inside various jungles (three to be exact, after checking my phone), showing the sheer abundance of agarwood saplings that will grow to replace the trees that were chopped down.

In my humble opinion, no one gains from governments outright disallowing the harvesting of wild agarwood. Yes, the trade should be regulated, but in favor of protecting/monitoring the folks involved in the trade. I've said it before and I'll say it again, agarwood doesn't need protection. It proliferates so fast... its like having cockroaches listed under endangered species. They ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

I posted some of this (and more) about a week ago, but deleted that as well.

Thanks for sharing your on-site perspective, and thanks for removing the off topic post from the other thread.
In turn, I have edited out 'extinction' from my post, as it doesn't lessen the point I was making

Please do share the footage, I'm sure that many here would appreciate it.

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

Nice to hear from you @Taha. Im sure @Al Shareef Oudh mentioned some sort of involvment in this?

Yeah we were involved in this project and like most renewable initiatives it is an amazing under taking especially when the plantation happens on exiting farm land which is the initial requirement for truly organic classification. In 2007 the company spearheading the initiative imported 4 kilogram of seed from Vietnam with CITES approval and distributed the seed to 7 different nurseries across the northern parts of Australia
The seedlings were planted out through 2008 on 15 different sites across the north of Australia mainly Queensland, under various systems.

In 2008 there was a further import of 20 kilograms of CITES approved seeds from Vietnam and used one successful nursery in Northern Queensland to grow the saplings. In 2009 the organisation made agreements with growers to plant out some 40,000 seedlings and they have been continuing to plant every year since.

The company that is spearheading the initiative also has the patent rights for the CA Kit for Australia and some surrounding countries which makes the arrangements very similar to some of the Vietnamese plantations Crassna and CA Kit.

The first harvest was a couple of years ago from one of the sites in Queensland, and those trees would have been 6-8 year old CA Kitted Crassna, which is most likely the source for the current oils on offer.

Whilst you will find names from members of our team on related publications, we have however distanced ourselves from the initiative due to the initiative taking a path that does not align with our standards and philosophy.

Onto a separate part of the discussion; is there wild oudh in Australia, the informed answer is no. Is there a desire for there to be wild oudh in Australia yes. When we were researching the possibility of growing Oudh in Australia north of Australia which has tropical weather not like those of the further northern Islands off Indonesia, but nevertheless it is still warm and wet. This region was thoroughly surveyed with some of the worlds most knowledgeable plant scientists and local aboriginals. There were no oudh trees here.

Our local aboriginals are from amongst some of the most flora and fauna attuned natives anywhere in the world. They have lived on this land mass for over 50,000 years and in that time they have developed an understanding of this land and her species more deeply than anyone of us could imagine. I have spent a decent amount of time with the natives in the north and interior, I know many of the tribes and also the most elder of them here in the western side of the country. I can also understand some of their language, they have not come across oudh here, nor is there anything in their tradition regarding it. Our aboriginals are dream timers, i.e story tellers and have an oral and art tradition to record their heritage in drawings and stories. It would be very likely that if there was such a thing it would have been passed down.

I with many others are hopeful that one day we will come across many oudh trees or a tribe that knows where the trees are!

@Taha not heard of the Cambodian you referring to bro, but like anything I wouldn't be surprised someone trying to test the markets reaction before he came back to you with Cambodian accent 'hey look i have 1litre of Wild Aushterlian Oudh with CITIES sertifikates' we all know how that story plays out.

As for CITES I agree with some of what you say, I think it is a mechanism of control by big fish over the shrimps, it isn't really focused on saving the trees. If that was the case it would be halting some of the largest forest clearance that are taking place by the Indonesian authorities, inside which there are thousands of agarwood and other species on the CITIES list.

 

[Taha]

Ohhhhh... sorry, I had misunderstood, I thought Habz meant you were involved in the documentary initiative.

I'm not surprised you parted ways with them, yeah I'm also a big... errm, what's the word for 'NOT a fan'?... of CAKit oud.

Natural plantation agarwood is the way to go honestly, I've said it before and I'll say it again (and your Fajr oil demonstrated it) - done right, an organic farm oil can easily vie with most wild oils, because in both cases usually the age of the oil formation inside the tree is around the same.
Its just the stigma of being a 'plantation oil' that holds most people back. 'Wild' sounds cooler.

As to the existence of wild trees in the wild of Queensland.. hmm.. I'm still undecided.
I have been to parts of the Philippines where the indigenous Aeta and Moro and Lumad and other ancient and semi-ancient tribes were very well-aware of their backyards, heck, their survival depends on the jungle. And yet they weren't able to identify the tree. A few training sessions and bam, the tribes were identifying the trees left right and center.
The same is the case with the Ja Nea variety of agarwood in South Thailand. Its been in existence for ever in the jungles of Pattani, Mardelong, Bukit, and other provinces of what is now Thailand. And yet, it only got discovered in the past 5 years.

Merauke and Port Moresby are a stone's throw away from north Queensland, and they both have agarwood, hmmm....
And if my frustrations in the Philippines have taught me anything, its the fact that agarwood tend to be invisible to even seasoned jungle folks who have never harvested agarwood before, regardless of how proficient they may be of their backyard.

But... Cambodians in particular... yes, I know what you mean all too well!

Please do share the footage, I'm sure that many here would appreciate it.

I planned to actually put together a massive blog post with a bunch of footage, as well as my own thoughts on a few different varieties of agarwood I came across together with some of the conclusions I reached.
Sneak peek of one of the conclusions: I am 100% convinced that the 'original' archaic agarwood was most likely closest to Gyrinops and (from the Aquilaria wing) Filaria, Cumingiana, and a couple I don't know the Latin names for (Sirsak and Cabut).
Incidentally, Malik from AlHashimi visited me a few months ago, and I was surprised to find that he had come to the same conclusions (and an astounding 100% overlap with my own proposed upper portion of the gene tree.. up to Microcarpa) via genetic analysis of markers.. or something like that. I don't know anything about the genetic sciences, so you'd have to ask him about that. My conclusions were only based on what I saw.
Any how, I can't share most of that publicly, not quite yet, so maybe down the road.

 

[Al Hashimi]

Incidentally, Malik from AlHashimi visited me a few months ago, and I was surprised to find that he had come to the same conclusions (and an astounding 100% overlap with my own proposed upper portion of the gene tree.. up to Microcarpa) via genetic analysis of markers.. or something like that. I don't know anything about the genetic sciences, so you'd have to ask him about that. My conclusions were only based on what I saw.
Any how, I can't share most of that publicly, not quite yet, so maybe down the road.

@Alkhadra is more than just a “new kid on the block”. Even surprised me with his insights.

 

[Alkhadra]

I don't know anything about the genetic sciences, so you'd have to ask him about that.

@Alkhadra has no desire in answering questions or discussing this topic openly until he finds more conclusive evidence to his findings. Right Alkhadra? Right.

But yeah, the big problem I have is the filaria paradox. It fits into both, and fits into none.