Al Ghaliyah Ingredients

Discussion in 'The Art of Traditional Perfumery' started by Oudamberlove, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    That is correct, the most original form had 3 ingredients, it was the skeleton if you like. The difficulty lies in the preparation of the ingredients and what then was later added to the skeleton.

    However you initially didn't say three ingredients, you said 2;

    If I was to work with what you have quoted I find the following issues with how you relay the information.

    Firstly you have quoted only 2 ingredients from some old books that you havent told us the names of, and there is no ben oil. That on it's own is a big difference from what I had mentioned. In fact is it 1/3 of the ingredients in number.

    Secondly when you omit an ingredient that then makes the ratio you present inaccurate as well.

    Thirdly, You also incorrectly claim that there is "NO original formula", but then later on you use for deduction the following comment;

    By inference you are now saying there is an original formula, which was already established as the logical conclusion because everything in creation has a beginning.

    In an effort to bring some benefit to the members from this exchange I summarise, there definitely was an original formula of Al Ghaliyah, and it still exists. There was also many assumed formulas in books called Ghaliyah penned as the originals, the most original or the earliest of those had 3 ingredients as I had mentioned on ouddict before. Are the ones in the books the same as the one we have in hand, no they are not. The reason for that is that many of what is penned in books is done so many generations after. Is there anything wrong with whats in the books, no there isnt, however when understanding these compositions with deep knowledge it provides an edge, knowing that the grinding, filtering etc each play roles and what those roles are. Which season to collect the musk, which beaches the ambergris should be collected from. How the ambergris should be prepared etc, that is what tradition provides us.
     
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  2. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    Of course everyone's efforts are appreciated, and I am in no horse race with anyone. A long post was made directly at ASO and I responded to it, I am not sure why you interjected and tried to knock us by making inaccurate claims regarding our traditional values. When such claims are made they have to be responded to otherwise people will be mislead. Just to be clear in case it was missed this is not about you or any other vendor, i was simply responding to Akhira and then you came a long so I had to set the records straight on some of your comments which were factually not correct.
     
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  3. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    Sir , i am not fighting

    I said 2 coz they were two and a “carrier” ben oil

    Well the books and writers
    Lets see

    Al Kindi

    Ibrahim Ibn Abbas

    Anya King


    In any case, i dont know why is it a sensitive issue to that extent—
     
  4. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    I didnt make inaccurate claims-
    I didnt even claim anything
    I quoted you about your Ghaliya because you were undermining all other vendors who has the name Ghaliya- and they are several- not just me
     
  5. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    Abu Nasr Al Cohen also
     
  6. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    The quote you provide akhi was not about our Al Ghaliyah, it was about Ghaliyah in general on this forum. I would not share our formula in the public. I was not undermining anyone rather I was simply responding to Akhira and stating that some people are trying to replicate OUR product. It doesn't concern me what people call their products, but if someone is replicating our product then it has to be addressed and people made aware. I am not sure why you feel that was undermining you or any other vendor. I am not referring to anyone just making there own Ghaliyah, but there were people passing on a sample that they were saying is Al Ghaliyah from ASO and we had nothing to do with it. I hope thats clear now.

    As with regards those books, they all reference formulas that were actually collected/penned later on, even if you look at al kindi he came some 200+ years after the first appearance of Al Ghaliyah. The first generation of how Al Ghaliyah was prepared was different to the second generation of it, this was both due to the hardware available and ingredients. Why is that knowledge important, it is important because the changes were made for a reason, and those reasons alter the smell even if you keep the ingredients constant and just change the preparation.
     
  7. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    I clarify , i meant the Ghaliya
    Not ASO Ghaliya

    Anyway brother
    I hope there are no misunderstandings

    No undermining or disrespect intended :praying:

    Have a good day
     
  8. Akhira

    Akhira Whats this Oud About?

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    Dear brothers,
    Now I understand the damage a post can cause.
    I feel responsible for what happens.
    I just wanted to know if the perfume
    that I love and no longer have is 100% natural.
    I did not want to cause disorder and ask you not to feed yourself from the harm that I may have caused with this post please.
    I apologize to Al Shareef Oudh for all this and I would just like to add that his Ghaliyah is the most beautiful perfume my skin has ever known.
     
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  9. Oudamberlove

    Oudamberlove Member

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    I played around with blending, with limited ingredients and no real training.

    Although the one of a kind blends I made have a novelty value, none of them are impressive.

    I am far better at smelling perfume, than making perfume, and based on what I’ve learned so far, blending is not child’s play. I would need much more ingredients and years of experimenting.
    In that light I envy the efforts and traditional recipes handed down from generation to generation of the ASO team, and wish I had tried their Al Ghaliyah.
     
  10. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Owner

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    I’m glad you have realised the issues that posts like original one can cause. In future, it’s probably sensible to approach things like this privately at first before going public. I can already see certain members who only emerge when there is controversy poring over the thread and making their predictable appearance - I can see who is looking at what thread at any point in time.

    Having said that, I’ve noticed that you’ve effectively removed your original post. While I can understand why, it makes the responses unintelligible and so I will confer with the management as to whether to reinstate the last version of that post before deletion.
     
  11. Ashfaque

    Ashfaque Analogue Oud

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    +1 to what Curt said. Not that ASO needs any more support. But here is my two cents.... I consider ASO as one of my mentors mainly for two reasons:
    - He shares information in this forum that he really does not have to - mainly do so because he appreciates people learning, and taking informed decisions about oud, and other natural perfume ingredients/perfumes in general.
    - They always use naturals. So I asked some questions privately about certain naturals for my experimental blends, which he could have easily ignored. But he did not. He's the one who explained to me very clearly why and how civet plays a very important role in many blends - and few more nuggets about other naturals. I don't think I have found such information from reading books. For that I will forever be grateful. JazakAllah khayr brother.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  12. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    I will have to disagree for the first time with the constant avoidance - its my opinion and i think i am entitled to my opinion as a buyer before being a vendor.

    And now i will be posting this one as a client or customer or perfume user rather than a vendor on this forum.

    Do we always have to agree on everything??
    We are having a technical discussion about a specific historical naming- i didn't mean Mr AlShareefs Ghaliya and made that clearly.

    Why does that turn into a vendor vs. vendor-
    I do think its normal for discussions to take place from time to time.

    The referal to the original formula and ghaliya naming was mentioned by Mr AlShareef - it was also mentioned once by Taha - BOTH vendors whom are both respected throughout the forum members- EVEN THOUGH their ghaliyas smell completely different from one another, does that make one of them bad?- NO- they are both professional and experts in what they do- however the interpretation and scarcity of materials make the replication almost impossible-

    I personally smelt Ghaliya al Molook by Agar Aura-
    And i personally smelt Al Ghaliya from ASO
    And i personally smelt Ghaliya Iris by Ensar
    And i personally smelt 5 different Ghaliyas from JK
    And i smelt Ghaliya by Mellifluence
    And i smelt Galia by Henry Jacques

    All were beautiful in their own way

    However i mentioned Taha specifically because of a historical reference on his website and i am quoting from the ghalia al molook page

    “”Ghaliyah' was a term used in the medieval Arabian tradition to refer to perfumes created using the most precious aromatics - typically ambergris, musk, and oud being the star ingredients. “”

    In the description of it on Agar Auras website Taha spoke about the ancient recipes and formulas as well-

    And that is what i want to say as well STAR INGREDIENTS-

    We have degrees of freedom in interpreting ancient text.

    As for @Ashfaque clearly you are mixing whats personal with technical debate
    What does civet knowledge you got from Mr AlShareef has to do with anything i wrote about??
    We were talking about perfume terminology based on a disagreement about a historical issue.

    So do you want to say that one side has to be correct and the other wrong- fine- but how do you interpret all the other vendors referral to Ghaliya naming??

    I hope you really appreciate the plurality in the perfume and attar industry nowadays- trust me its better to have several choices rather than one choice.

    I also do share from time to time information on the forum as well and in several instances i didnt get any response- so i abstained in further doing so.
     
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  13. Ashfaque

    Ashfaque Analogue Oud

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    I was rather sharing my positive experience with ASO team and observations about them - most of which theoretical/technical to some extent ... that's it.
     
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  14. powdernose

    powdernose Admin & Oud Sprite Staff Member

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    I don't think you should feel bad about all of this,
    but it is true that certain subjects need a softer glove, and it is good to apply some forethought about the effect a post may have.
    The manner and phrasing of your query regarding how natural the ingredients are in ASO Ghaliyah, especially when based on little more than a hunch, could have been addressed first privately. Or less in the form of a challenge.

    On the other hand, the fact that EA and ASO have differing views regarding the history of Ghaliyah has nothing to do with your post.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with differing views being expressed.
    It can be beneficial to hash things out, sometimes it helps overcome misunderstandings,
    sometimes there is common ground to be found.

    In this case I think part of the 'argument' lies in misunderstanding,
    ASO was answering a specific claim regarding his Ghaliyah, and made reference to the fact that there are attempts to copy his Ghaliyah.
    ASO also talked of the (oral) tradition that has passed through generations to safeguard their own Ghaliyah methodology.
    Not much wrong with that. And no doubt, the fewer the ingredients of a perfume the more important the quality and sourcing and preparation of those is.

    But I do agree with you that there must be a degree of freedom in interpreting ancient formulas.
    There may be many interpretations of such formulas, and many of them may be considered 'true to spirit'.
    Also, while abiding strictly to an ancient formula may be interesting in a historical context,
    the results may be outdated.

    In my opinion, for example, the use of ben oil in luxury perfumery is definitely outdated.
    Do any of the modern formulas you mentioned having tried use ben oil as historically prescribed, if at all?

    Ouddicts and drama
    Strawberries and cream
    Some things just go hand in hand :)

    Seriously though, sometimes such threads are the most interesting to read and may be the most educational too.

    So what is the history of Al Ghaliyah? How far back does it go?
    When did it move into its second generation?
     
  15. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    Thank you)))

    Yes - i know of one which had Ben oil recently- will send you a PM.
     
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  16. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    In our tradition it's first mention as a smell was recorded at around 632. It's first mention as a fragrance in a bottle was around the years 670-680.

    It's second generation occurred when our Arab/Islamic tradition were introduced to the love of rose and saffron from Persia. At this stage it evolved in the number of ingredients to include saffron and rose.
     
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