Bilalw

Oud Fan
ameen f4r1d0ux ... and did some1 say that ASAQ was reliable and trustworthy? because the GCMS says otherwise...


edit for the sake of clarity, this post was taken from another thread and deposited here somewhat out of context. the context was some1 said ( i think, which is why i asked, because the way it was worded seemed odd) that ASAQ was reliable and trustworthy. i dont think that is the case.
 
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Bilalw

Oud Fan
While I wouldn’t be surprised, I can’t seem to find the reference to ASAQ? Was this your oil that you submitted?

As far as ASAQ are concerned, it’s not a surprise as the original batches of Kalakhassi and Thaqeel are long sold out.

Ask Tony Bolton about that for first hand info. He bought the oil in person and paid for the test.
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
Ask Tony Bolton about that for first hand info. He bought the oil in person and paid for the test.

Thanks. Will do. I wonder when he bought it.

Just for the record, I have smelled three types Thaqeel Oud from ASAQ that have been progressively ‘worse’. I had a sample of the original batch received in 2008 and probably purchased by the original owner around 2002/3 and used this sample to identify the last of the original batch in the ASAQ store in Madina, Saudi Arabia back in 2012 when I bought 2 tolas and practically cleaned them out.

At the time they told me that they had none in any other store in the Gulf and that this was the last batch of original Thaqeel. Time subsequently proved this to be the case, as I heard that they had some further batches of ‘original’ Thaqeel in Kuwait and Bahrain, but upon smelling a sample, I was sorely disappointed. This new ‘original’ batch smelled like 15% original Thaqeel mixed with 85% plantation Crassna Thai. I’ve heard that newer batches are basically just thick syrupy Thai Ouds, but haven’t smelled them. To me, this indicates that the business has simply stretched out the well known line of their Oud, but the product has no relation to the original.

This is probably to be expected as ASAQ cater to a mass market and have never claimed to be ‘Artisanal’ producers - to be honest, the very concept doesn’t exist over there. That’s not a criticism and it does not preclude these businesses having in the past, sold Oud of a superior quality to the ‘Artisanal Legends’ we know of in the West. However, for a consumer who prizes purity above all else, it’s definitely off putting.

If that Kalakhassi was purchased from outside a main Saudi Arabian store and purchased in the last 5 years, then it is most probably a later and diluted batch and the GCMS results are no surprise. Tony Bolton is relatively new to the Oud scene, otherwise he would have known better than to GCMS test an Oud purchased from a Gulf store. :Roflmao:

All this does not make ASAQ untrustworthy as a business for the reasons stated above. It is however, very possible that ignorant and over zealous sales staff are to blame also. Caveat Emptor when dealing with them...
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
Couple months ago it was purchased. I think maybe 6 months . I can't recall exactly but I remember him posting pics of his visit there.

OK, then the GCMS results are not surprising in the least. It would be interesting to GCMS test Ouds from artisanal Oud vendors as well. We are trying to launch just such an effort here too - I have heard of one being filtered with an illegal plant and it being GCMS tested!
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
ASQ is dissappointing they still claim to have same oils and sell it for same price. They have even launched all sorts of Malay oils etc at very cheap prices. In reality this is called lying on the customer s face and charging them ridiculous amounts for not the genuine stuff is nothing short of a show of dubious intent. Worldinscents have clearly mentioned about reforms. Lying is good for business. Sadly. Sorry to say but you cannot have consistency with oud oils outside one particular batches. They even used to mention 5:95 ratio for their top oils like 150yrs before. 5pc being actual old oil. Now only fancy stories go with oils. No specific info. Btw, can someone locate Kalakassi Hills on google maps for me ! Thank God they re not artisanal. And GCMS on artisanal oils will never be shown here on any other forum. The vendors many a times buy oils from local distillers based on trust I believe. It may not always be in favour. Trust what you will and move on. Thats the current status. All comnercial companies are cheats.

@Ouddict why would you say they are not "untrustworthy" when they DONT even know what they re selling ? Secondly, why the should the oil vary from the store at Mecca to store at Dubai ? That is intentional CRIME dear sir. Tony is new to Ouds but ASQ has atleast a 40 year old history with Ouds. Who do you trust more ?

Truth is all these companies are no better than stores on the streets of Colaba. Even if someone shares a GCMS here none of the old consumers will believe it. Thats the problem with brand associations and Oudh hegimony. We must be have a clear judgement on things. Our stance can cost a new oud lover thousands of dollars of hardwork for this Kalakassi joke just because they trust our words more than words of the company. Peace.
 
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F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
ameen f4r1d0ux ... and did some1 say that ASAQ was reliable and trustworthy? because the GCMS says otherwise...

ASAQ is a too famous house to keep being in pure wild oud standards and feed millions people...

But big chance first batches were pure God knows best...

So as far as Im concerned I dont need to as Im sure it cant be pure...
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
ASAQ is a too famous house to keep being in pure wild oud standards and feed millions people...

But big chance first batches were pure God knows best...

So as far as Im concerned I dont need to as Im sure it cant be pure...
I doubt Kalkassi is geared towards millions. They have enough good stuff like Safari Oil, Safari Extreme or even the 20 to 50 dollar Fragrant Oud Oil and Elite Ous oil. Just like the ones found with Surrati and Madni in Medinah to engage the Swiss Arabian like crowd and window shoppers ;-)
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
I doubt Kalkassi is geared towards millions. They have enough good stuff like Safari Oil, Safari Extreme or even the 20 to 50 dollar Fragrant Oud Oil and Elite Ous oil. Just like the ones found with Surrati and Madni in Medinah to engage the Swiss Arabian like crowd and window shoppers ;-)

Sorry I havent speak correctly, mean their products in general.
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
Im sure you can get but they should have specific private clients for theses ... lol yeh I saw :Roflmao:
No the reason I doubt it is because by this time 150 and 120 year Ouds would have been Sold Out. I mean they are located in the gulf with all the passionate Oudy people. Lovers of Oud and definitely many people who can afford it. But it keeps getting refilled lol. If they were on a small island in Ireland I am still sure Ouddicts/Gaharuans would be there already rofl
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
No the reason I doubt it is because by this time 150 and 120 year Ouds would have been Sold Out. I mean they are located in the gulf with all the passionate Oudy people. Lovers of Oud and definitely many people who can afford it. But it keeps getting refilled lol. If they were on a small island in Ireland I am still sure Ouddicts/Gaharuans would be there already rofl

I dont know brother, Im skeptical into keeping an oil distilled in 1867 and have the idea to keep it intact for 150 years and say this will be the crown of our brand.

If this really happened more or less like this, then they could have make it each year and open a thaqueel batch at 150.

Like 2018 one would have been distilled in 1867.

I already have doubt on it but it can be true.

Problem is how someone can anticipate the world oud crave ?

It could explain heavy dillution and deal would be : we give you access to this but to keep the price "fair" it will be dilluted.

Or maybe they got Washington Convention behind them (CITES) and the only way to export oud is to dillute it and become oil blend.

Theses are quite logical explanations which can help someone making his opinion without saying it's true.

All that I know is that they are certainely no clowns ...
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
I dont know brother, Im skeptical into keeping an oil distilled in 1867 and have the idea to keep it intact for 150 years and say this will be the crown of our brand.

If this really happened more or less like this, then they could have make it each year and open a thaqueel batch at 150.

Like 2018 one would have been distilled in 1867.

I already have doubt on it but it can be true.

Problem is how someone can anticipate the world oud crave ?

It could explain heavy dillution and deal would be : we give you access to this but to keep the price "fair" it will be dilluted.

Or maybe they got Washington Convention behind them (CITES) and the only way to export oud is to dillute it and become oil blend.

Theses are quite logical explanations which can help someone making his opinion without saying it's true.

All that I know is that they are certainely no clowns ...
How can they be clowns with such heritage ? Treasure Oud, UK has a 170 years old Kalkassi Oud by the way. True but why dilute when you are buying directly from them ? Anyway, good for them. If buyers are paying, who am I to ask questions. Clowns or no clowns only God gets to decide that.
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
How can they be clowns with such heritage ? Treasure Oud, UK has a 170 years old Kalkassi Oud by the way. True but why dilute when you are buying directly from them ? Anyway, good for them. If buyers are paying, who am I to ask questions. Clowns or no clowns only God gets to decide that.

Chili bro wasnt directed against you :Thumbsup:.
We are trying together to debate on how ASAQ could have ending selling dilluted kannam because I doubt we will have an answer if we ask consumer service directly :Roflmao:.

As for treasure oudh I did'nt talked a lot with the owner, I heard they have old family heritage.

Did you try their 150 yo oil ?
 

Alkhadra

"Master Kafeel" Resident Artisan
How can they be clowns with such heritage ? Treasure Oud, UK has a 170 years old Kalkassi Oud by the way. True but why dilute when you are buying directly from them ? Anyway, good for them. If buyers are paying, who am I to ask questions. Clowns or no clowns only God gets to decide that.
Dear brother @Nikhil S, the Kalakassi Oud from Treasure Oud is not 170 years old. Rather the tree that was used to make the distillation was 170 years old.

Do you think that a GCMS analysis could help determine the ages of oils by viewing the chemical constituents, and if any new bonds were formed?
 
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