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RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
The vendors re-selling with huge markups need to realize that as this community grows, and if their wholesalers are on-line too (FB, IG etc.), it will only be a matter of time before their buyers realize that they have massively over-paid...you figure they are going to trust those guys again...?
I understand a reasonable markup, not easy to source good product...like lets say 20-50%...but over a 100% or even 200%...wow...

@Arsalan - I’m curious...

I wanted to ask - what kind of work do you do?

Also - Are you self- employed or in any way involved in the back end of a company?

I would like to give home some homework : to go into your place of work and ask to speak with someone in the finance department and ask what their margins per line item are.

Ask them how much revenue is required in order to pay your salary.

Ask what the COGS and what the Margin is on the company’s sales, and how that contrasts with the overall margin at the end of the day.

Most companies, if they are doing REALLY well - will have a 7% margin at the end of the day. Companies like Walmart and Amazon operate on less than a 1% margin. Rock star companies might hit 9-10% margin.

If you need help clarifying what this means - I’ll be more than happy to elaborate more.

Curious to hear what you find out at work :)
 

Arsalan

True Ouddict
Apologies to any vendors that may take offence...
@RisingPhoenix bro, I don’t know enough about selling these type of products...and really should not have made that comment...
Post was based on stuff I’ve heard around the community...
Requested admin to remove it...
 

OudGood

True Ouddict
Apologies to any vendors that may take offence...
@RisingPhoenix bro, I don’t know enough about selling these type of products...and really should not have made that comment...
Post was based on stuff I’ve heard around the community...
Requested admin to remove it...
@Arsalan I dont see anything wrong with your post at all. At the end of the day we are all here to learn. So when vendors explain to us directly we learn more. These are like masterclasses. I dont think you should feel uncomfortable about your post.
 

RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
@Arsalan I dont see anything wrong with your post at all. At the end of the day we are all here to learn. So when vendors explain to us directly we learn more. These are like masterclasses. I dont think you should feel uncomfortable about your post.

@OudGood - same homework assignment :)
 

RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
Hey hey dont remind me of those assignment days. I'm on holiday :)

Not anymore you’re not! :Roflmao:

Seriously though - go in to work and ask. Pretty basic question s that’ll hopefully help you understand that the the “profit” you guys are thinking about isn’t at all what you’re thinking
 

OudGood

True Ouddict
Not anymore you’re not! :Roflmao:

Seriously though - go in to work and ask. Pretty basic question s that’ll hopefully help you understand that the the “profit” you guys are thinking about isn’t at all what you’re thinking
Dont get me wrong dear. I totally understand what you are saying. My academic background is accounting. Arsalan's second post made me comment. I like and truly appreciate this forum for its openness. How you can ask questions and all. But I dont have the same question/issue Arsalan asked in his first question. I think your response to Arsalan is a very good one. It will make people understand how it works. Thats why I said vendors responses are sometimes masterclasses.
 
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RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
My academic background is accounting. So even withou

Dont get me wrong dear. I totally understand what you are saying. My academic background is accounting. Arsalan's second post made me comment. I like and truly appreciate this forum for its openness. How you can ask questions and all. But I dont have the same question/issue Arsalan asked in his first question. I think your response to Arsalan is a very good one. It will make people understand how it works. Thats why I said vendors responses are sometimes masterclasses.

In that case, as a non-vendor who works in accounting - could you help shed some light on why the “profit” folks are referring to isn’t really what it’s cracked up to be?

I have a feeling hearing this from someone who isn’t selling them goods will be more meaningful. I don’t think they realize how obscenely reductionistic their statements are. Your insight may help shift some perspectives...
 

Arsalan

True Ouddict
@RisingPhoenix @OudGood
Right guys, let me explain with an example...essential oil diffusers - many local shops that sell essential oils, also sell diffusers. Often i can recognize the ones that are easily available online, so at the store $60, on Amazon $30...i mean the exact same devices.
There are many Chinese products in the market today with just variation on the label, the products are the exact same, like VictSing...etc...
Now i understand retail has huge expenses, store, employees, utilities, etc. So they need to mark up, however the thought that goes thru my mind is that it really sucks for whoever is buying these, because they are paying double for the exact same product, with no additional value added.
But there are retailers who could still set themselves apart...Saje, an EO chain store guarantees their diffusers for life...if it stops working while you own it, they will replace it...they charge more but they add value...
Anyway, those are mass produced products...

Different story with artisanal or “hand-made”....
The reason i “withdrew” my prior post is that when it comes to oud, and catering to a certain market, it is not just “re-selling” but rather like curating works...costs can be higher, whether it is travelling to find product, or going through 50 to find 1 that makes the cut.
We all put our faith in these awesome vendors to go out there, find the best they can to make our lives easier. So we don't need to take chances with sketchy sources, where we have no assurances of what we are getting. Whereas witht the respected vendors here, this forum allows for a place to keep these vendors accountable as well...which is of uncensored opinion is very important here...



@Arsalan -

Most companies, if they are doing REALLY well - will have a 7% margin at the end of the day. Companies like Walmart and Amazon operate on less than a 1% margin. Rock star companies might hit 9-10% margin.

If you need help clarifying what this means - I’ll be more than happy to elaborate more.

Curious to hear what you find out at work :)

Let’s just say i work for myself...don’t have “Finance Dept” to go and chat with...:Roflmao: and Salary....wow...those must be nice...:Whistling:
However, i do have friends who run businesses based hugely on imports from China...and very common to have around 50% markups on wholesaler values...however...you know EXACTLY what is being purchased....anyway...you mention margins....that is whole different thing...then one needs to get into detail...and efficiency and so on and on...and on....

Mentioning companies like Walmart, Amazon, or other huge corporations is completely irrelevant in this context, as their business model is based on massive volumes...
If you would like to elaborate further....please go ahead...:Thumbsup:
 
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Arsalan

True Ouddict
In that case, as a non-vendor who works in accounting - could you help shed some light on why the “profit” folks are referring to isn’t really what it’s cracked up to be?

I have a feeling hearing this from someone who isn’t selling them goods will be more meaningful. I don’t think they realize how obscenely reductionistic their statements are. Your insight may help shift some perspectives...

Who referred to “profit”?
Bro, obviously everybody gotta make some $$$ doing what they are doing...!
So absolutely nothing wrong with profit!
 

Faizal_p

Sulaym.co.uk
I'd like to chime in if I may. For us in the UK we have corporation tax of 20% on our profit, on top of this we have Costc related to travel, trips to Pakistan for musk, India, Malaysia, Cambodia, Sri Lanka etc etc for agarwood. We also have a cost associated to packaging: bottles, boxes, vials... Then promotion of the business however that may be, website, free samples, events. How about product going missing? We've had thousands of dollars of wood and oil go "missing". So very quickly you can see how the costs associated pile up. Yes if one person buys an oil sat at home and does nothing apart from repackage and sell on them they've made an incredible profit but as soon as you enter the realms of company formation that's gone out the window.
 

Joe King

AttitOud
I think the market dictates the price to the extent where vendors are still making a profit but competition (and from what i have observed here a love of oud and good hearts) keeps them honest, if people have a choice (which at the moment they have quite a few) then we see realistic prices. I believe for the most part, oud sellers are not ripping us off. I am sure if there was a big profit to be made then we would be bombarded with re-sellers.
 

Mellifluence

Oud Fan
2018 is about to say goodbye, but leaving me with a lot of Musk and Oud oils to remember. I feel indebted to all respectable distillers, distiller vendors, and vendors. Their untiring efforts made it possible to enrich fragrant treasure.

I am deeply thankful to all the vendors and all the members who contributed to Oud legacy. Putting aside differences of opinion over the qualitative aspect of oils and over the supremacy of creative skills of the vendors, respect and love for oils and vendors had always been there, and would always be there.

Here I am to share end of year findings of mine that I noted throughout my voyage into Oscent. It is just mine, and I confess I am a limited being with limited olfactory sense. I acquired from all except Al Hashimi, directly or indirectly.

1. Ensar Oud: A lot of oils released this year, including Oud and Musk. Rather Musk based oils had been fervently marketed. The unique trait of EO in my view has always been it never releases oils without proper curing and aging. This is why its majority of oils are flawless.

A long range of spectacular Oud oils is there to mention. Midori Qi, Surirankeh Senkoh and Sumbawa Oud and many more were there to love. Yes, these oils compelled me to love them. I couldn’t withstand their pull.

2. Al Shareef Oudh: I tried maximum itr from ASO, and a few Oud oils as well. To be honest, Yaqoot touched my heart at maximum. It is gorgeous. Turath II is also a quality Musk based oil. The Musk Invisible Fire is very much there. Qandhar and Al Ruba’aiee remained my inspiration.

3. Agar Aura: The only brand that remained true to its signature. Clean and smooth aroma that I experienced in AA’s oils was nowhere in any other oil from any other brand. Ayu, Hindustan 1, Kuzen remained my love sort of oils. And it is enough to make me love AA's Oud.

4. Imperial Oud: A lot of Chinese Oud oils. Just imagine: Hainan Imperiale, Yunan Imperiale, Fragrant Harbour Supreme, Hainan Vintage, Fragrant Harbour, etc. The oils that made me experience a new Oudy dimension was Ceylon Royale. Shah Jahan was an excellent one.

Mysore Santal 2002, I wish I could acquire the whole batch. I am thinking on it to stop buying Oud anymore, at least for a year, and buy Mysore Santal 2002. I have consumed at least 65 ml plus Mysore Santal 2002 in fourteen months.

So far as IO’s attars go, Mysuru Amber is excellent, Mysore bil Misk is very good.

The oil L’Oriental/ Al Mashriq that I have tried and is still with me, is the best Musk attar by any vendor. It will be released; otherwise, I would have not mentioned it here.

5. Habzoud: Excellent! No more words needed at all. At the moment, no such claims that I or the team distilled this bla bla oil after spending days and night without having proper rest. Borneo and Shams were great oils. But Qamar… got eclipsed. I am sure if I had not tried Shams Ceylon Oud, I would have missed Ceylon Oud, or at least a superb Ceylon Oud.

One riddle that my friend and I could not resolve: Why the brand name is Habzoud, and not Habz Oud?

6. Royal Bengal Oud: Ish rocks! The best thing I tried from him is Santal wood shavings. Beautiful. The Oud oils he offers are good and very good.

7. Rising Phoenix Perfumes: Though I have tried a few Oud oils and a few attars yet, but I found maximum variety available to all sorts of customers. No doubt, extremely neglected and underrated brand it is. I don’t why. But I am amazed how JK manages acquiring hell variety of things. RPP’s Hindi oil (I forgot the name) was an excellent oil for a traditional Oud lover. I found Kalanam Islay a must for me. The way Assam Organic is no more organic, but better than a lot of wild oils, Kalanam Islay is not a cultivated oil for me, but wild. Shaikh al Khalifa Attar is one of the best Rose based attars.

8. La Maison Khenata: Slow and steady wins the race. No big claims from this brand, though some oils deserve to come forward. Malay Cola and traditional Hindi Oud attracted me a lot. I being a Musk oriented person know the worth of Malay Cola. I feel the brand has a lot more fragrances to deal in. Noir Velours I wore many times, and each time I enjoyed its Hindi tone. I wish it were rather smooth. But Malay Cola is the oil with different taste.

Ambergris is the niche product of this brand, I suppose.

9. Mellifluence and Elixir Attar: Both the brands have to work harder to become artisans, if they want to. Both the brands are working to excel.
I acquired the sample pack (that had at least thirteen oils including Al Gha'aliya) from Elixir Attar, and at least ten to fifteen oils (1 ml each) from Mellifluence. The attars were pleasant enough. May they flourish more and more.

10. Tyson: The day Tyson distilled Oud (and most probably he will be the first distiller-vendor, beyond any doubt), I will be the first customer to tender my request for a bottle. He said what he actually did, and he wrote what he honestly felt about the oils he offered. THE ONLY VENDOR who criticized his own oils. Otherwise, I haven’t found even a single vendor saying his this or that oil is average.

Santal oil had been the prominent feature of the brand, and it truly deserves to be prominent. Snow White to Aluhalaza, it is an upward journey. Aluhalaza is the pinnacle indeed. Moreover, two beautiful attars Euphoria and Holy moved me, though they drastically share the essential nuances. Frank Vanilla is good. But Palo Santo and Santal is more than interesting infusion for me. And Frankincense oil is beautiful, and worth macerating Musk in it.

I have Tyson’s Oud Santal Frangipani blend. As it is just with me, so no more words. But I must say Tyson has to distill Oud. And if possible, which is near to impossible, share the cost price of the Oud oil. Anyway, Tyson is the vendor of the year for me. Not only his oils speak, but he himself honestly and cruelly speaks about his oils as well.

11. Sultan Pasha: In the world of attar making, this brand is superior to all. No doubt it has something unique. Ensar Rose is horribly stunning. Some attars are genuinely great. I will try to acquire a few more attars to try to have rather comprehensive opinion because I feel there are at least more than 100 oils.


This year I could find only Ceylon Ouds whom I found ‘Oud as such’. Luxury has no price. Oud Suriranka Senkoh, Oud Shams, and Ceylon Royale and Ayu would remain with me for years. Musk dominated the minds. Pure Musk is to be tried at least once in life to instill a fragrant soul into life.



Edit: Well, with an open heart, I edited the whole post for the sake of this small community.:praying:

Dear Rai

I am quite surprised to see the rather negative remarks about my essential oils here, which i know you have not actually tried.
If you're referring to elixirattar in that comment then i would suggest you remove my name from it as that can affect business.

Personally i always strive to get the highest quality essential oils of which i have around 300 different types, not a few like you suggest.

Also with regards to synthetics, i do not own or sell any due to strong negative effects i get from coming in contact with them.

I love constructive criticism, but this strikes me more as a remark without thinking or examining what i actually sell.

I remember you bought several samples of attar from me and you said you loved the craftsmanship of Useera, and that your wife loved all of them.
So you're saying one thing to me, amd something different to the forum.

I would appreciate honesty in your feedback rather than a confused post which does not show what i actually provide and do.

I fully accept i have a long way to go in reaching my potential, but be a gentleman and tell me directly.
 

Arsalan

True Ouddict
I'd like to chime in if I may. For us in the UK we have corporation tax of 20% on our profit, on top of this we have Costc related to travel, trips to Pakistan for musk, India, Malaysia, Cambodia, Sri Lanka etc etc for agarwood. We also have a cost associated to packaging: bottles, boxes, vials... Then promotion of the business however that may be, website, free samples, events. How about product going missing? We've had thousands of dollars of wood and oil go "missing". So very quickly you can see how the costs associated pile up. Yes if one person buys an oil sat at home and does nothing apart from repackage and sell on them they've made an incredible profit but as soon as you enter the realms of company formation that's gone out the window.

Thank you for sharing that @Faizal_p. Really puts things into perspective.
Having been a customer, it really is a pleasure dealing with IO.
I’m glad there are vendors like yourself, @RisingPhoenix, @Habz786, @Royalbengalouds (and forgive me if i’m missing others) who do the work of finding the quality stuff out there to share with us...so we don’t need to take risks with purchasing from sketchy sources...
During the past year i have made purchases from all four, and honestly you guys have exceeded my expectations as a customer.

***Edited to add Ish!!! Can’t believe I missed the awesome RBO!***

I think the market dictates the price to the extent where vendors are still making a profit but competition (and from what i have observed here a love of oud and good hearts) keeps them honest, if people have a choice (which at the moment they have quite a few) then we see realistic prices. I believe for the most part, oud sellers are not ripping us off. I am sure if there was a big profit to be made then we would be bombarded with re-sellers.

Well said @Joe King. I totally agree.
 
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RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
So - let's have a frank conversation about your response, since you started the conversation and copped out of really answering my questions.

Remember - I'm not angry. I'm quite happy, actually, that you have provided an opportunity to serve as an illustration as an answer to your own questions. I am, however, terribly unsatisfied with your response, and expect more from you in light of your previous comments. So - let's be a chap and play along since you're the one who opened this door. :)

@RisingPhoenix @OudGood
So they need to mark up, however the thought that goes thru my mind is that it really sucks for whoever is buying these, because they are paying double for the exact same product, with no additional value added.

--> Which is why so many box retailers are going out of business. If we all had shops...our products prices would be even higher. If we were in distribution - our products would be priced even higher.

I have a brother that works in the corporate world - I can tell you that many of those companies and products either break even or lose money after covering their expenses, shipping, fees to whichever online marketplace they are on. Long run - it's doing every business participating in those models harm.

Anyway, those are mass produced products...

-->None of us are mass producing anything. We ALL deal in small volumes. SMALL volumes. The way you guys criticize vendors quite frankly illustrates that no, you don't really know what you are criticizing.

Different story with artisanal or “hand-made”....
The reason i “withdrew” my prior post is that when it comes to oud, and catering to a certain market, it is not just “re-selling” but rather like curating works...costs can be higher, whether it is travelling to find product, or going through 50 to find 1 that makes the cut.

-->So if you "know" this...then why all the bitching??

We all put our faith in these awesome vendors to go out there, find the best they can to make our lives easier. So we don't need to take chances with sketchy sources, where we have no assurances of what we are getting. Whereas witht the respected vendors here, this forum allows for a place to keep these vendors accountable as well...which is of uncensored opinion is very important here...

-->And THAT is that "value added benefit" that you all keep overlooking. We are one stop shopping experiences. We take the risks so you don't have to. We take the losses so you don't have to. We take the time, effort, and expense scouring the world to find the best - so that you don't have to. We answer your queries at pretty much every hour of the day, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. We have brought the entire world into the palm of your hand. If you know all of this...then what the heck are you grumbling about?



Let’s just say i work for myself...don’t have “Finance Dept” to go and chat with...:Roflmao: and Salary....wow...those must be nice...:Whistling:

-->Yeah, it would. None of us have one. But comments like yours make us ALL feel like you don't think we should be paid for the work we do. Your comments and the comments of others lead us all to believe you don't really know what it takes to run a business, and that all of us should be doing this work for you - yes, this work IS FOR YOU - and that your expectation is that we should be doing it for free.

However, i do have friends who run businesses based hugely on imports from China...and very common to have around 50% markups on wholesaler values...however...you know EXACTLY what is being purchased....anyway...you mention margins....that is whole different thing...then one needs to get into detail...and efficiency and so on and on...and on....

-->Yeah, and I bet those big import businesses deal in large volumes. If they were doing business like we are - they'd be outta business in a week.

Mentioning companies like Walmart, Amazon, or other huge corporations is completely irrelevant in this context, as their business model is based on massive volumes...

-->Exactly - which means we all need larger margins to counterbalance the smaller volumes and all of the related expenses (of which there are many in addition to the cost of the wood or producing an oil). Think any of us can exist on 1% or 7% or 10% overall profit on the small revenue we all do?? C'mon - if you REALLY know this - then why the comments and undermining of our livelihoods?

If you would like to elaborate further....please go ahead...:Thumbsup:

-->See, I'm just not that satisfied with your response. It's time for you to elaborate. You're calling us out - I think it's high time someone calls you out :)

You seem to be making it sound like you "know" all of this - but your comments and those of others lead us vendors to believe you don't really know. It sounds like you want champagne on beer prices. It sounds like you want us all to not be able to make ends meet (which is a reality often every single month). It sounds like you don't really care about the work we do on your behalf. About the sacrifices we make, about the risks we take, about the losses we are burdened with - all so you can buy 0.3g of oil or a gram of wood here and there (ain't nobody gettin' rich in such minuscule quantities as you guys all buy).

So - No, I am still not satisfied. You say you are self - employed. It's you that needs to elaborate.

What do you sell? A product? A service? Kinda both?
What are your costs on said service or product - and what are your margins on each of your products or services?
How much do you pay yourself?
How much revenue must you have just to pay yourself?
How are you planning for retirement (gotta save and plan for the inevitable future when you aren't working, right?)
How are you financing your business' growth?
How do you cover your losses?
How do you pay yourself when you have a slow month, or a month of losses exceeding your revenue / margins?
Do you customers expect you to be selling to them at the cost of goods or services rendered?
Are your customers hostile because they don't think you should be able to make a living doing your job?
What are all your other expenses that the margin on your products or services have to cover?
At the end of the year - what is your overall profit margin?

I hope you understand - this is exactly what you are asking all of us - meanwhile telling us it's not fair that we try and make a living while trying to provide our services to you.

So - I want you to answer these questions. This is an exercise - for your own benefit - and the benefit of all reading this. Let's finally settle this asinine line of questioning that is a veiled attempt of telling us all we are not deserving of making a living.

We await your chance here to educate us with the same questions you are asking us.

@RisingPhoenix @OudGood
So they need to mark up, however the thought that goes thru my mind is that it really sucks for whoever is buying these, because they are paying double for the exact same product, with no additional value added.

--> Which is why so many box retailers are going out of business. If we all had shops...our products prices would be even higher. If we were in distribution - our products would be priced even higher.

I have a brother that works in the corporate world - I can tell you that many of those companies and products either break even or lose money after covering their expenses, shipping, fees to whichever online marketplace they are on. Long run - it's doing every business participating in those models harm.

Anyway, those are mass produced products...

-->None of us are mass producing anything. We ALL deal in small volumes. SMALL volumes. The way you guys criticize vendors is, quite frankly - moronic, and illustrates that no, you don't really know what you are criticizing.

Different story with artisanal or “hand-made”....
The reason i “withdrew” my prior post is that when it comes to oud, and catering to a certain market, it is not just “re-selling” but rather like curating works...costs can be higher, whether it is travelling to find product, or going through 50 to find 1 that makes the cut.

-->So if you "know" this...then why all the bitching??

We all put our faith in these awesome vendors to go out there, find the best they can to make our lives easier. So we don't need to take chances with sketchy sources, where we have no assurances of what we are getting. Whereas witht the respected vendors here, this forum allows for a place to keep these vendors accountable as well...which is of uncensored opinion is very important here...

-->And THAT is that "value added benefit" that you all keep overlooking. We are one stop shopping experiences. We take the risks so you don't have to. We take the losses so you don't have to. We take the time, effort, and expense scouring the world to find the best - so that you don't have to. We answer your queries at pretty much every hour of the day, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. We have brought the entire world into the palm of your hand. If you know all of this...then what the heck are you grumbling about?



Let’s just say i work for myself...don’t have “Finance Dept” to go and chat with...:Roflmao: and Salary....wow...those must be nice...:Whistling:

-->Yeah, it would. None of us have one. But comments like yours make us ALL feel like you don't think we should be paid for the work we do. Your comments and the comments of others lead us all to believe you don't really know what it takes to run a business, and that all of us should be doing this work for you - yes, this work IS FOR YOU - and that your expectation is that we should be doing it for free. Quite frankly...that makes you a bit of an asshole for throwing that at us. No bullshit and straight to the point.

However, i do have friends who run businesses based hugely on imports from China...and very common to have around 50% markups on wholesaler values...however...you know EXACTLY what is being purchased....anyway...you mention margins....that is whole different thing...then one needs to get into detail...and efficiency and so on and on...and on....

-->Yeah, and I bet those big import businesses deal in large volumes. If they were doing business like we are - they'd be outta business in a week.

Mentioning companies like Walmart, Amazon, or other huge corporations is completely irrelevant in this context, as their business model is based on massive volumes...

-->Exactly - which means we all need larger margins to counterbalance the smaller volumes and all of the related expenses (of which there are many in addition to the cost of the wood or producing an oil). Think any of us can exist on 1% or 7% or 10% overall profit on the small revenue we all do?? C'mon - if you REALLY know this - then why the comments and undermining of our livelihoods?

If you would like to elaborate further....please go ahead...:Thumbsup:

-->See, I'm just not that satisfied with your response. It's time for you to elaborate. You're calling bullshit on us - I think it's high time someone calls bullshit on you :)

You seem to be making it sound like you "know" all of this - but your comments and those of others lead us vendors to believe you don't really know. It sounds like you want champagne on beer prices. It sounds like you want us all to not be able to make ends meet (which is a reality often every single month). It sounds like you don't really care about the work we do on your behalf. About the sacrifices we make, about the risks we take, about the losses we are burdened with - all so you can buy 0.3g of oil or a gram of wood here and there (ain't nobody gettin' rich in such minuscule quantities as you guys all buy).

So - No, I am still not satisfied. You say you are self - employed. It's you that needs to elaborate.

What do you sell? A product? A service? Kinda both?
What are your costs on said service or product - and what are your margins on each of your products or services?
How much do you pay yourself?
How much revenue must you have just to pay yourself?
How are you planning for retirement (gotta save and plan for the inevitable future when you aren't working, right?)
How are you financing your business' growth?
How do you cover your losses?
How do you pay yourself when you have a slow month, or a month of losses exceeding your revenue / margins?
Do you customers expect you to be selling to them at the cost of goods or services rendered?
Are your customers hostile because they don't think you should be able to make a living doing your job?
What are all your other expenses that the margin on your products or services have to cover?
At the end of the year - what is your overall profit margin?

I hope you understand - this is exactly what you are asking all of us - meanwhile telling us it's not fair that we try and make a living while trying to provide our services to you.

So - I want you to answer these questions. This is an exercise - for your own benefit - and the benefit of all reading this. Let's finally settle this asinine line of questioning that is a veiled attempt of telling us all we are not deserving of making a living.

We await your chance here to educate us with the same questions you are asking us.
 
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Arsalan

True Ouddict
Wow @RisingPhoenix ... I admitted that I posted impulsively, gave credit to the re-sellers for bringing us great products and providing excellent customer service...
But seems like you just want to continue in a confrontational way...
Sorry, but i refuse to further engage on this topic.
 

RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
Wow @RisingPhoenix ... I admitted that I posted impulsively, gave credit to the re-sellers for bringing us great products and providing excellent customer service...
But seems like you just want to continue in a confrontational way...
Sorry, but i refuse to further engage on this topic.

Bro - you and everyone else love to take shots at us. Don’t think we aren’t allowed to push back. Especially when you call our integrity into question.

We demand answers from you. Don’t back out and answer the questions that you are essentially demanding of us. Don’t think you can throw punches and not get any thrown back.

Please - educate us as a fellow self employed business.
 

Arsalan

True Ouddict
Bro - you and everyone else love to take shots at us. Don’t think we aren’t allowed to push back. Especially when you call our integrity into question.

We demand answers from you. Don’t be a pussy and answer the questions that you are essentially demanding of us. Don’t think you can throw punches and not get any thrown back.

Please - educate us as a fellow self employed business.

JK...you are seriously out of line...
Your aggressive tone is shocking really...
As I said I’m done with this topic.
 
Z

Zahir

Guest
To the original post in this thread: the fact that mods had to self edit the post to make it more palatable is sickening. They could've had the decency of adding in a comment somewhere that they had to modify the original post and clarify exactly why it was modified so the same is not done by another member in the future.

Because the original post had to be modified by the mods, I do not feel like this is truly an 'open' community where members can share their impressions about the products that they have tried. If a forum rule was violated, it should have been clearly stated so in a separate post and Rai sahib should have been asked to modify his post in lieu of that violation. The fact that the mods did it all by themselves speaks volume.

What this is telling me is that if I post something displeasing to the mods, they can and will modify or delete my post as they see fit. Sounds like dictatorship to me. I do not feel comfortable freely expressing myself on this forum anymore and can see why the likes of Ensar and @Taha would want to avoid it as well. It is a clear sign that this forum is more favoring to the vendors than the consumers with this regards.
 
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