Ouddict Forum Changes

What is most noticeable is finding some people pop up on the forum and become really active when its in favor or against a specific somone or some policy, or when it involves attacking others-but see no contribution to them elsewhere

The forum is cool and we really appreciate as vendors Nadeems’ efforts for moderation, establishment, etc. Thanks Nadeem

Last, a message to vendors and members alike,
Please be sure that there is no need for any hostile spirit against one another-
Every vendors have their own customers - both on forum and elsewhere- are our dear Ouddict members are entitled to their opinions.

I find the hostility and the amount of tension completely unnecessary- and i really wonder- why is the case where we should all be cooperative-
After all - noone will force any members to buy a product from a certain vendor-
And no vendor would force a member to love their oils or give a feedback.

Cheers

I really like what JK said, take every statement here with a grain or two(maybe even ten) of salt. Also, I might be completely off but I think some hostilities here will simply vanish once these people who are virtual meet each other. (The ones who haven't met). I didn't have any hostilities to begin with but once I met some ouddicts in Vegas I further cemented it my head that misunderstandings might happen but I will always be cordial with these folks, I will give them the benefit of doubt the same way I give to my family, that's honestly what I consider these folks...and that was a direct result of the kindness these strangers showed to me and to each other when we met for the first time really. People were giving me free oils, free rides, free sniffs and free advice like I was a relative of theirs.

In regards to this forum, I personally saw nothing wrong with it the way it was going, I liked the marketplace the way it was, even if newbies came only to trade I got to meet some new people and sell to them, (I guess it would be difficult to buy from someone who has "just arrived"). I see myself a little like Steven Sproat in that I didn't feel like I could give elaborate descriptions of oils but I did wear them almost everyday and enjoy doing so, I burn wood almost everyday and enjoy doing so, and I like reading the recent posts on this forum and the reviews people have, I enjoy reading the positive and the negative reviews, I'll be honest I don't see many negative reviews nowadays. I was dissapointed to see Rai Munir leave, I enjoyed his commentary and his enthusiasm for Musk(I disagree that it is superior to Oud, that's another discussion). However, I completely trust that Nadeem did everything he could to keep him here and place no blame on Nadeem or the management for Uncle Munirs departure. Even before I read Nadeem's post on how much of his own stuff he has put into this, I knew it's not easy to run something like this, I definitely appreciate this platform and this community, so even though I was fine with things the way they were...I'm not running this forum and I really don't have a say in the particulars, that's up the management and I'm fine with whatever they decide. Bilal pointed out that we are a cult for doing ootd and talking of our oils and he doesn't think like that....I didn't take offense to that, cult to me is not necessarily a negative thing, and sure we differ in the way we enjoy oud but I'm glad he was allowed to make the points he had and he made some good points (initially ) And I understand why people might have got offended but like I said I think that might not have happened maybe if we had all met in person it's difficult to hate someone up close(I read that somewhere recently)

I thought Pearl had some really good ideas, I have always enjoyed reading his posts. But again I'm not running this forum and it's up to the moderators to take what they think is beneficial and leave the rest, I'll be here regardless because I love Oud and I love y'all. I'm not crying you are.

Peace
MzM

P.s: Moderators you are doing a great job! Thank you for this forum and for the time and effort you put into this.

I meant no harm or insults at all, when I was talking it was just from my perspective and to offer a different perspective for the clique to consider. That's all. So hostility? Not me man. Completely misunderstood me. I mean yeah I guess I could have been more tipitoe around but that doesn't get anything done . As much as I can love a thing in the Duniya, I do love the oud. I use it almost everyday and enjoy Hindi the most. I have many of Zak's oils and met him directly in person as a result of this forum. I also like to burn but my wife doesn't . I just gave a dissenting opinion and it was met with hostility if u ask me. In text all things are different I guess, but I am pretty blunt in voice also. Anyways I'm a sweetheart so just stock up on salt and don't get so butthurt about a perceived slant, like obviously I'm a member of this forum, I count myself as one of the extreme. I don't see myself as part of the cult sorta extreme, but certainly extreme. Out of billions of ppl ,here we are together, a few hundred ppl. Some more extreme than others! Haha. God protect me from ever spending 2500 USD on a bottle of oud lol

Hostility probably a wrong choice of words by me. Substitute it with synonyms of misunderstanding.

MzM said:

Hostility probably a wrong choice of words by me. Substitute it with synonyms of misunderstanding.

Click to expand...

You're not the only one throwing that word around though. Ill chaulk it up to most ppl here not being English as a first language most likely


Back on topic. Some ppl here use the marketplace to excess. Perhaps charging them would be a good way to make up costs. Additionally u could always ask for donations and have "gold member accounts ". Etc

Second law of Thermodynamics

I've only read up to page 2... but my take on the matter is that the Marketplace serves a very useful and functional purpose that likely drives a lot of traffic and page views. If that's where the action is on your site, it's what should be promoted the most. If folks come here because they hear of a great marketplace and see a banner ad for something that intrigues them, it will drive them to the vendors site - it's up to the vendor and/or the one creating the banner ad to make it more enticing for the viewers.

In order to drive more traffic to the other components that you've created, you must advertise effectively and give people content that they want to read. That requires market research and trial and error, but that should not rest on the shoulders of the users of the blog but the creators and maintaners of the site.

What you have is a very useful and wonderful site that is getting some great attention (from the biggest vendors on the planet). In order to create a successful and profitable site, it will take a lot of time and energy and adjusting. But the if the marketplace is where you're getting all the action, by all means don't change it otherwise you'll lose members and traffic. Typically sites take many years and adjustments to get it right.

There are some solid ad strategies that can drive more interest to the content on the site; I'm more than happy to give advice in that regard.

No matter, amazing site. Great folks on here. Very generous people who love this incredible gift of Oud.

Having a donation button is probably a great idea

Reviews are an important part of my buying process. The lack of critical reviews here is an issue for me and I don't find this forum satisfies my need in that regard. There aren't, to my knowledge, other places online which fill that gap either. Basenotes do allow positive/neutral/negative ratings which really help making an informed purchase but it's not got much by way of oud entries and reviews yet.

I end up having to go by vendor descriptions, and sometimes suggestions. For example, some vendors will say to me don't buy this as you've already got this and try x instead etc and I've even been directed to another vendor! ... that is very helpful but it's still important to get other people's opinions. I appreciate this forum has tried hard to allow discussion but it does appear that there is a reluctance to critique products. There is so much positivity about everyone's oud oils that it is often difficult to make an informed purchase. Reminds me of the Lego movie song "Everything is awesome!" lol

I'm aware of the issues critical reviews can ignite but reviews are a necessary part of any hobby/lifestyle/whatever you call it. I frequent some tea forums and the dialogue there is free and people readily offer their opinions and ratings on different teas.

The other points raised to do with sharing information and learning would certainly encourage greater participation, increase views (possibly participation too) from lurkers, and promote confidence in oud enthusiasts which would ultimately shape the (online) oud market into one with more integrity, transparency and customer/consumer confidence. Anyone who has been around the 'online oud world' will be familiar with the various politics.

Perhaps a 'no holds barred' section of the forum so people know that it's enter at your own risk...

Agreed reviews here seem universally positive so I pretty much ignore them. It is great if this makes people happy and lets them bond with other fans their distiller of choice. I know I would not feel comfortable writing a negative review here because of the strong presence of both vendors and fans. That’s all OK if that’s what makes people happy here. I do miss the basenotes forum in that it was not so filled with product promotions, requests for swaps, etc. (all that is great but it is just like junk mail in a discussion forum I think). I have found vendor participation at that group to have a mixed effect. Definitely changes the tone of discussion, not sure how to balance it.

I will happily post a negative review, but hey, perhaps I'm easy to please as not many oils are "bad" to me, I am neutral to some but generally like all the ouds I've tried! As an example, I sold Imperial Oud's Fragrance Harbour Supreme as I dislike the bitterness to it which became a bit offputting, but regardless of how I feel about that oil it does feel like it's of quality, just its aroma doesn't appeal to me.

And hopefully nobody feels like they cannot post a negative review as the forum welcomes such criticism.

notsobigbloke said:

Reviews are an important part of my buying process. The lack of critical reviews here is an issue for me and I don't find this forum satisfies my need in that regard. There aren't, to my knowledge, other places online which fill that gap either. Basenotes do allow positive/neutral/negative ratings which really help making an informed purchase but it's not got much by way of oud entries and reviews yet.

I end up having to go by vendor descriptions, and sometimes suggestions. For example, some vendors will say to me don't buy this as you've already got this and try x instead etc and I've even been directed to another vendor! ... that is very helpful but it's still important to get other people's opinions. I appreciate this forum has tried hard to allow discussion but it does appear that there is a reluctance to critique products. There is so much positivity about everyone's oud oils that it is often difficult to make an informed purchase. Reminds me of the Lego movie song "Everything is awesome!" lol

I'm aware of the issues critical reviews can ignite but reviews are a necessary part of any hobby/lifestyle/whatever you call it. I frequent some tea forums and the dialogue there is free and people readily offer their opinions and ratings on different teas.

The other points raised to do with sharing information and learning would certainly encourage greater participation, increase views (possibly participation too) from lurkers, and promote confidence in oud enthusiasts which would ultimately shape the (online) oud market into one with more integrity, transparency and customer/consumer confidence. Anyone who has been around the 'online oud world' will be familiar with the various politics.

Perhaps a 'no holds barred' section of the forum so people know that it's enter at your own risk...

Click to expand...

A few thoughts based on some personal observations and a LOT of comments from customers...

For starters - there are a lot of people that read, but don’t post. If we could start encouraging these folks to post more - the thing holding them back isn’t negativity - it’s usually shyness or feeling insecure about lacking the words to describe their experiences. I keep telling them not to worry so much about that. Folks like to read others thoughts, no matter how limiting their Oud vocabulary.

Secondly - the thing most customers tell me holding them back isn’t Vendors snapping at them here on the forum. They tell me they don’t post because they don’t want Ensar or Taha to know they are also buying our oils. No joke. They are worried that a non-member and a sometimes member vendor will be upset with them for buying someone else’s products. Little to nothing to do with the bulk of the Vendors here.

Thirdly - I can’t speak for everyone - but many folks here are just posting about EO or AA and rarely about other vendors (see my observation above). The other thing is - if you aren’t buying our oils, you can’t review them. Out of the previous comments on this page - only one commentor that I’m aware of has bought from me. Many lurkers buy from me - but they don’t post for one of the two reasons above. Maybe the problem isn’t that folks aren’t posting reviews - it’s that they aren’t even supporting their Ouddict community vendors - or they are afraid of two vendors in particular.

Just some thoughts and observations from a higher altitude.

Sproaty said:

I will happily post a negative review, but hey, perhaps I'm easy to please as not many oils are "bad" to me, I am neutral to some but generally like all the ouds I've tried! As an example, I sold Imperial Oud's Fragrance Harbour Supreme as I dislike the bitterness to it which became a bit offputting, but regardless of how I feel about that oil it does feel like it's of quality, just its aroma doesn't appeal to me.

And hopefully nobody feels like they cannot post a negative review as the forum welcomes such criticism.

Click to expand...

This is exactly my problem as well. All the ouds that I have tried I have enjoyed, some were not to my taste though (which I always specifief) but I could still enjoy their quality. With the exception of one kyara offering which is however also growing on me. As for Fragrant Harbor I love it exactly because of that bitterness

But seriously people, if you want more diversity in taste and in reviews you will have to post them yourselves. Would love to read them, even if negative ones. There is nothing here that should make one feel uncomfortable about writing one. God knows the negative reviews were always met with encouragment.

But I just cant change and write a negative review if I enjoy the oil, doh.

RisingPhoenix said:

A few thoughts based on some personal observations and a LOT of comments from customers...

For starters - there are a lot of people that read, but don’t post. If we could start encouraging these folks to post more - the thing holding them back isn’t negativity - it’s usually shyness or feeling insecure about lacking the words to describe their experiences. I keep telling them not to worry so much about that. Folks like to read others thoughts, no matter how limiting their Oud vocabulary.

Secondly - the thing most customers tell me holding them back isn’t Vendors snapping at them here on the forum. They tell me they don’t post because they don’t want Ensar or Taha to know they are also buying our oils. No joke. They are worried that a non-member and a sometimes member vendor will be upset with them for buying someone else’s products. Little to nothing to do with the bulk of the Vendors here.

Thirdly - I can’t speak for everyone - but many folks here are just posting about EO or AA and rarely about other vendors (see my observation above). The other thing is - if you aren’t buying our oils, you can’t review them. Out of the previous comments on this page - only one commentor that I’m aware of has bought from me. Many lurkers buy from me - but they don’t post for one of the two reasons above. Maybe the problem isn’t that folks aren’t posting reviews - it’s that they aren’t even supporting their Ouddict community vendors - or they are afraid of two vendors in particular.

Just some thoughts and observations from a higher altitude.

Click to expand...

That is so weird to read.
Like why would people be afraid if a vendor reads a negative opinion coming from his customer or he finds them posting on ouddict? What can he do? Not sell his oils

Grega said:

That is so weird to read.
Like why would people be afraid if a vendor reads a negative opinion coming from his customer or he finds them posting on ouddict? What can he do? Not sell his oils

Click to expand...

You got one of the meanings correct, but you missed the other meaning… Many people tell me they are afraid to write reviews because they don’t want those two vendors seeing that they are buying oil’s from the other vendors here. No joke, I hear this an awful lot when I ask if they will write a review here in Ouddict, and they decline for this very reason.

RisingPhoenix said:

A few thoughts based on some personal observations and a LOT of comments from customers...

For starters - there are a lot of people that read, but don’t post. If we could start encouraging these folks to post more - the thing holding them back isn’t negativity - it’s usually shyness or feeling insecure about lacking the words to describe their experiences. I keep telling them not to worry so much about that. Folks like to read others thoughts, no matter how limiting their Oud vocabulary.

Secondly - the thing most customers tell me holding them back isn’t Vendors snapping at them here on the forum. They tell me they don’t post because they don’t want Ensar or Taha to know they are also buying our oils. No joke. They are worried that a non-member and a sometimes member vendor will be upset with them for buying someone else’s products. Little to nothing to do with the bulk of the Vendors here.

Thirdly - I can’t speak for everyone - but many folks here are just posting about EO or AA and rarely about other vendors (see my observation above). The other thing is - if you aren’t buying our oils, you can’t review them. Out of the previous comments on this page - only one commentor that I’m aware of has bought from me. Many lurkers buy from me - but they don’t post for one of the two reasons above. Maybe the problem isn’t that folks aren’t posting reviews - it’s that they aren’t even supporting their Ouddict community vendors - or they are afraid of two vendors in particular.

Just some thoughts and observations from a higher altitude.

Click to expand...

It's unfortunate that 2 particular vendors are singled out as causing fear in *your* customers and thereby holding them back from posting reviews online. I would go as far as to say that the issue lies in the customer rather than the vendors you mentioned.

The majority of my collection is EO & AA so that would form a large number of my reviews. That shouldn't be an issue. I understood this forum to be a place to share our love for oud regardless of personal vendor preferences. I didn't think that would be to the detriment of the 'Ouddict community vendors' as surely their business models allow for revenue to be generated other than sales through forum promotions and communication. Just because someone posts on Ouddict doesn't mean they should be 'supporting' the vendors here :/ I've never viewed Ouddict as a vendor led forum.

Sadly you have inadvertently (perhaps) brought to light some of the reasons that people most likely don't post - accusations being thrown around willy nilly.

Just post reviews guys. Be articulate, try to avoid bashing people for senseless reasons, don’t worry so much about us vendors.

I would also encourage you all to branch out a little bit and maybe start exploring or what the vendors here have to offer, as it seems maybe many of the vendors here are being overlooked and that’s why there aren’t as many reviews about our products.

This is supposed to be fun… So post some reviews and have some fun

notsobigbloke said:

It's unfortunate that 2 particular vendors are singled out as causing fear in *your* customers and thereby holding them back from posting reviews online. I would go as far as to say that the issue lies in the customer rather than the vendors you mentioned.

The majority of my collection is EO & AA so that would form a large number of my reviews. That shouldn't be an issue. I understood this forum to be a place to share our love for oud regardless of personal vendor preferences. I didn't think that would be to the detriment of the 'Ouddict community vendors' as surely their business models allow for revenue to be generated other than sales through forum promotions and communication. Just because someone posts on Ouddict doesn't mean they should be 'supporting' the vendors here :/ I've never viewed Ouddict as a vendor led forum.

Sadly you have inadvertently (perhaps) brought to light some of the reasons that people most likely don't post - accusations being thrown around willy nilly.

Click to expand...

I agree with you that this might be more of an indication of fear on a customer‘s behalf. But as you just mentioned, most of your products come only from two vendors, one of them who isn’t even a member here. I would encourage you to branch out and start trying some of the other vendors products. If you did, you would be able to post some impressions and reviews of all of these products you wish to be reading about

notsobigbloke said:

It's unfortunate that 2 particular vendors are singled out as causing fear in *your* customers and thereby holding them back from posting reviews online. I would go as far as to say that the issue lies in the customer rather than the vendors you mentioned.

The majority of my collection is EO & AA so that would form a large number of my reviews. That shouldn't be an issue. I understood this forum to be a place to share our love for oud regardless of personal vendor preferences. I didn't think that would be to the detriment of the 'Ouddict community vendors' as surely their business models allow for revenue to be generated other than sales through forum promotions and communication. Just because someone posts on Ouddict doesn't mean they should be 'supporting' the vendors here :/ I've never viewed Ouddict as a vendor led forum.

Sadly you have inadvertently (perhaps) brought to light some of the reasons that people most likely don't post - accusations being thrown around willy nilly.

Click to expand...

Most of my customers aren’t here on Ouddict. I have a very broad customer base.

All I meant was - folks here seem to post EO and AA products. Makes me wonder if the reason you aren’t seeing reviews of more products - is because y’all aren’t trying the products and therefore can’t review them.

Branch out. Try some other vendors. “Be the change you want to see.”