Kyara/Kynam: IS IT REALLY OUD?

[Alex]

Right but there is no way to know what material was actually submitted for your lab tests. We have no idea if there is a bait and switch going on.

Again - 90% of the people who are disagreeing with you are not vendors here. This is not a cabal plot against your company. You seem to be doing fine with your bags of money and royal clientele. If your past engagement with mods or leadership on this forum was poor and people took the time to complain about stuff you sold them, it must have happened enough times for it to be looked into seriously. It's not like some newbie bought your wares and complained and then with no investigating, they decided against you. It must have been repeated. @EJayB has experience distilling oils himself so if he says your wares were shite, I'm inclined to trust him. For the record, I'm pretty sure when those messages went back and forth between you guys @EJayB wasn't even a vendor here yet. Just a regular ouddict member.

- with all respect I don't know the people here, and I honestly care about facts that opinions. again we had over 1000 order wit hall the other credentials I listed don't you think it's little strange that the only people complaining are here? don't you think it's straight that those who complain don't want to try the oil or samplers before buying and then when they get it and complain they don't want to return it and get a refund refund? don't you think it's also strange that they are saying things like, it's bad, horrible and , synthetic and still don't want to return it? finally don't think all those experts and people who bought is and claimed it is synthetic non of them came with a single evidence or prove?

Trust is earned not given. Ouddict is a circle of trust. Members trust that leadership will properly vet vendors. You come in with information about no kynam/kyara existing. We read it. Contemplated the info you provided. Digested it. Considered the logic you provided. Disagreed with you. And moved on. Then you posted it again (2x for some reason). We disagreed with you because:

- sorry to tell you that you didn't understood perfumery, in art and perfumery there is no leadership, if you think you should buy your oils and like and dislike scents because of what leadership promote and tell you then my friend we fundamentally disagree.

Your lab tests are unverified.

- wrong, (again with all respect you don;t now what you are talking about or you haven't looked at it) it is from a top USA lab, the lab details there and the reference number there, the person who done it have their name and signature and the person who supervised the process have their name and signature both are PHD and experts in their field so please don't say thing that are wrong or make accusation you don't know. (the lab test is here and published on all our accounts)

We have no proof what material was submitted.

- the materials submitted are the materials that the lab test was done for and this is the problem I don't know if you guys really don't understand or refuse to understand, I'm not trying to sell you anything I'm saying this is a test for cultivated kinam wood, I'm not selling or even saying I'm offering wild kinma like many of the vendors here, who haven't provide any prove or evidence so in other words, you believe someone telling you I have wild kinam for sale but don't believe someone telling you all kinam is cultivated including mine and here is a lab test for it (what kind of sense is that)

These could be fake or old or simply tests of different material other than what you are representing.

- I'm not representing anything or anyone, I talk about my self and our house, I listed the test here for everyone to see an challenged anyone to do the same and no one did and no one will do, so you are saying I could be making a test in my company name with pictures and details and then sell something else but the people selling things with no test and not check what so even are all true.

For me this is the biggest logical fallacy. Why should we believe these tests are testing what you say they are?

- dear you don't have to believe anything I'm not here to make you believe, or impose any idea or thought on you not sure why you think I want you to believe anything on the contrary I want you to doubt, I want you to doubt me, doubt those who try to sell you wild kinam with no prove and doubt those who say things that are not backed up scientifically , you believe what you can't prove as what is proven doesn't require believe, I didn't told you I have kiman that I'm selling and it's wild for you to believe me like other vendors and sellers, I listed a lab test with the highest scientific credential procedure and academic standers of testing.

How can we trust you are qualified to know what the material is in the first place, enough so that you know what to submit for testing?

- I don't know actually to be honest I have no clue other than scent and burn profile and taste sometimes, and that is exactly why we do a test and that is exactly why we hire a botanist to recognize and address each one of those elements, and that is exactly why we spend so much money and time to know, as if I know (or thought I do) and was a vendor here vouched fro by the "leadership" I would've sold you something I'm not sure about and I will never do that and that is exactly why we do a lab test. I'm not sure if you familiar with how a lab test is done but I;m sure you can ask and read.

The smoke test: this is an impossible litmus test. A bar too high. Too many variables to factor in. Sometimes when I light an incense stick and am very still, the smoke goes up in a straight line for a meter. But it's not kyara lol. So this test is already a non starter. If something else has the exact same smoke effect, than you can't say that your test exclusively determines authentic kyara vs non authentic kyara lol.

- yes you are very true there are many variables, and yes the air and the wind the heat and the density and the fire temperature all effect that, still if you read this book or do some research which I strongly recommend, you will find that the smoke if effected directly by some materials that are fossilized planet based bacteria those materials will make the smoke go in a straight line due to the molecular level of the material which is similar to the bee heaves (in shape but of course much smaller) this molecular foundation will act like a group of small channels that when the material is burned the smoked is pushed throughout the channels and this makes it tend to go vertical in a straight line do to the pressure and heat, this is similar to blowing smoke in thin straw and seeing it going far in a straight line (if you can imagine the picture) now I have explained the ultimate mystery of the straight smoke which I don't think it's a mystery at all as anyone with decent knowledge of chemistry or incense making should know that. I hope you get the idea and all other members get the idea so I don't have to keep answering and addressing why the smoke get in a straight line.

We live in a fast paced world. A book written years ago is probably filled with things that have been proven to be no longer accurate.

- have you read the book ? I don't think you did, please do before making an assumption as if you read it you will realize that the research done is not matter of opinion and it is simply scientific testing done with details and accuracy and basic categorization of species, but still if you think there is any inaccuracy, mistakes of outdated information please let me know and I'm sure miss rozi and the team of scientist in that Indonesian university who have been researching and studying agarwood will be very interested to know it.

Regardless if you claim the book is a leading authority in kyara - the fact that this 1 meter of smoke thing is mentioned in it as a logical experiment for determining kyara authenticity makes it super suspect.

- this is one simple behavior that the wood will act as when burn it is not the determining test (I have explained why above)

That's hardly a scientific process.

- I think that is up to the PHD and scientist who wrote the book to say and not to you or me, we have to be humble in our statements.

It's funny that on one hand you are all about lab testing but also this smoke test. Polar scientific opposites.

- they go side by side they don't oppose and if you read the book you will have a better understanding.

Look man - can't we just agree to disagree?

- I can't ask you or make you agree with anything but we agree with science and solid research done by certified experts.

 

[Mr.P]

Right but all we have here is your word about a single test of some kinam. And people who we trust and know through repeated experience are telling us that you don’t know the difference between real sandalwood and fake sandalwood or real agarwood and fake agarwood, or even worse, maybe you do know the difference and are selling blatantly fake products. I don’t know what else you have to say or show to redeem yourself but it seems like you are pretty much done here.

 

[Alex]

Alex .. Dear Alex
It’s cool , we understand you got some test that’s unverifiable nor can it be verified .

- you are seeming very ignorant by writing the same thing again what do you mean "unverified", (it was done in a major USA lab, by a PHD in chemistry, lab technician and, certified botanist, signed and authenticated, with date and address, and reference number this is more certified and verified than a test deciding a material is poisonous or safe for consumption by the laws of the united states government.

I also am directly saying you sold me bad oil that was not legit. I am not the first to tell you this.

- what is bad oil? you keep saying that you are experienced and have distilled before and the more you talk you more you prove this wrong, to anyine reading your post you said the oils is trash, you said fake, then you said synthetic and now you are saying bad, still you didn't wanted to return it and get your money back just wanted to cry about it here on this forum that you are a vendor on.

You are a troll , no more.

- scientific proved and truth are not easily excepted it's OK


Your product wasn’t and isn’t worth my time to go return it at the post office but I am totally willing to share it as a free sample to my next 20 customers just to see what the consensus is.

- it wasn't worth your time to return it to the post office, but it worth your time to send multiple messages about it, write dozen of posts, take a picture and post it, and send free samples of it to the next 20 customers and cry about it on multiple threads. (here on the forum that you a member and vendor with).

THANK YOU again.

Customers are looking for oud and I myself buy a lot of oud from a lot of different vendors from all over the world and yes I’m an Ouddict!!

- Oud Is an ocean, I hope you know this and understand it, this is like saying I want to buy fish from the sea. I thought you are vendor who distill yourself or at least that what you told me. good for you next time you buy oud from a vendor ask the if they have it tested, I'm not sure what being Ouddict is I believe it is being a member of this forum I guess that make me and everyone else here and Ouddict also, or anyone who resisted with an email and username.


If you love oud you would know better then to sell this trash.

- you talk about Oud as it's a single accord under one notes, I'm glad you are writing those posts, oud my friend is an ocean. we have sold over 20 different kinds of oud oil sold since we launched, currently carry 10 different kinds of oud oils, and we have over 400 different kinds of oud oil in our private collection , and we have personally distilled oud oil over 200 times in the previous years. I'm not going to go down to the level of talk you saying and words you are using as it's obviously not coming form an oud connoisseur or any connoisseur for that matter. but I invite you to contact us privately and I promises to respect your privacy and confidentiality (and won't tell anyone here about it) and I will send you some samples of real oud so you can try it and know what oud really is.


Shame on you Troll

 

[Alex]

Right but all we have here is your word about a single test of some kinam. And people who we trust and know through repeated experience

- - again you are trying to bend the truth, you don't have my word you have an authentic accredited lab test from a top USA lab, if you want to put that again the word of people you trust that is your own issue not mine. wait are those the same people who didn't knwo that cultivated kinam exist until I made a post and vendors used to sell it as wild?

are telling us that you don’t know the difference between real sandalwood and fake sandalwood or real agarwood and fake agarwood, or even worse, maybe you do know the difference and are selling blatantly fake products.

- dear I don't thing you should believe everything you get told, it seems to me that you are an adult, and educated person I really don't think you should believe everything you get told, I don't think the majority of members of this forum believe everything they get told that's why I'm presenting facts and not telling you things to believe.

I don’t know what else you have to say or show to redeem yourself but it seems like you are pretty much done here.

- I don't need to redeem my self dear I'm delighted I'm dominating this post and conversation in every way with facts, lab tests and scientific reference against opinions and trash talk and accusation, I have been doing aal the way I don't think you realize it. I'm not here to get customers we are sold out on 80% of our listed inventory, our bespoke service is backed up for two years, I'm not here nickeling and diming lying to people about wild Kinam that I'm offering on sale like some vendors every newly made oil we have been listing in the past year was sold in less than a week (this is a fact), I'm just here to prove that people who thought that attacking a company like the perfumist and publishing fake and offensive hateful talk are wrong and I have prove that. so I have nothing else to say or prove. and I understand you guys have a business here and try to make some money. but please next time this subject comes in remember, that no one here knew or heard of cultivated kinam until I posted it, and people here used to buy what they thing is wild kinam, remember that I'm the only one who posted an (AUTHENTIC, VERIFIED, ACCREDITED, SCIENTIFIC, SIGNED) lab test in non of the other vendors did, and finally remember my 10k challenge that I have posted twice. I will be gone for a wile as we will busy working on some major important projects, I will join you all guys in 6 months or so and in the mean time here is a picture to authenticate my challenge and responsibility, kindly not this is not a lab test or scientific evidence

 

[EJayB]

hahahaha !! This guy !! What a clown
the perfumest!!! Alex you sold me fake oud!! That’s is that and there is nothing more to it.
What a troll

 

[Santal Claus]

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem like a troll the way we know them. He sells stuff. This is terribly offensive and I hope our community guards ourselves against trolls like this.

 

[Tony Li]

My dram vials of Shoyeido, Baieido, and Yamadamatsu Kyara, have more aroma than a 20ml vial full of Kevin’s plantation Kynam. But the plantation Kynam exhibits room temperature aroma very akin to Kyara, the way the resin saturates the wood is very much like Kyara, if chewed has numbing effects, and when heated is very Kyara-like as well.

I’m not an expert, but this is my guess.....

•Kyara/Kinam, has to start as a Kyara tree, and is not formed from a regular agarwood tree after a very long resination period.

•Kyara trees grow in a wider region than Vietnam alone.

•Age does matter, so an older Kyara tree can develop a more mature aroma.

•No two Kyaras are alike. Some may have a more fragrant edge than others, and some may have different profile nuances as well, but......all should share that Kinamic backbone.


Like I said, this is my guess, I am not claiming to know this as fact.

However,,,
If more and more Kynam trees are propagated, then the likelihood of a Kyara Oud distillation may one day be feasible

Your guess are great, seems all correct according to the experience of the kinam plantation. You are an expert!!!

Regarding “No two Kyaras are alike. Some may have a more fragrant edge than others, and some may have different profile nuances as well, but......all should share that Kinamic backbone.” The kinam trees from forest, no two are alike. The kinam from one tree, they are the same type. The grafting trees from the same mother tree, the kinam are the same type.

 

[Tony Li]

Respected Woodland Note, I am thinking now it will become clear that for the last many decades, only cultivated Oud had been sold as Kynam.
Possibilities are always there.

As far as we know, there are almost no cultivated kinam before the year of 2017. In the year of 2018, the cultivated kinam start to sell in the local market in China, and the amount start to grow up in this two years. What is the earliest time can buy the cultivated kinam in the global market? What is the earliest time did you see the cultivated kinam?

 

[Tony Li]

dear how you prove the existence of something that you are making the clam that it doesn't exist, logical debates don't work this way dear.
if you say flying unicorns doesn't exist, I can't say you have to prove that flying unicorn doesn't exist, I even bring you a flying unicorn, show you one in real life, or bring you an evidence that there is a flying unicorn.
I'm saying what I'm saying with our 10 years or more experience in woods and specifically kinam, selling, buying and being consulted to check, find, and rate kinam, working hand to hand with kinam farmers and collectors and this is a fact to me. not saying that there is not a possibility that some royalty or kind somewhere in the world do have an ancient piece of kinam, not sating that somewhere under the deep jungles or mountains of Vietnamese there is no tree that dose has some very little wild kinam. I'm simply saying what is being sold and bought in the market is all cultivated. so in other words I'm not saying there is no flying unicorns I'm just saying that they don't exist nowadays.
regards to you

You should go to companies like shoyeido, baieido, yamadamastu in Japan, if they treat you friendly, they will show you the big sizes wild kyara (kinam). Or you can go to the Japan auction. In the year of 2019, April 22th, there was a kyara auction in Yokohama city of Japan, several kilograms in one piece kyara was sold in that auction. Or you can come to our company in China. We will show you the wild kinam (kinam), it is evident to distinguish the wild kinam and cultivated kinam, but it is not from any lab, can only according to experience. If you don’t have experience, you will need to study first.

 

[Tony Li]

Yes - I would not have difficulty at all believing that new wild (I mean actually wild grown - an old tree discovered with natural infection or whatever) is rarely if ever uncovered. But that doesn’t mean that nobody is selling material from old stock / inventory. It also doesn’t mean that if we buy a piece of kyara from an incense supplier in Japan that it was recently produced on a farm ( though it may be, what the hell do I know? All I do is repeat what other people tell me on the internet).

the problem you are encountering here Alex is that all of us have been told over and over and over again for all these years that this wood can only come from ancient wild trees and we have all come to accept this as dogma. This has been repeated as absolute truth, and so you have quite a bit of conditioning to deal with here. And you are right: I am sure there are people who have invested in wild kyara and are going to have a hard time hearing that it may not be what they think it is.

Regarding “all of us have been told over and over and over again for all these years that this wood can only come from ancient wild trees and we have all come to accept this as dogma.”, I think it is a secret in the agarwood industry for a long time. Until 10 plus years ago, we bought the wild small kinam tree from the hunters. We noticed that kinam should not cause ancient wild trees.
In the agarwood industry, some dealer or writer would like to describe clear, but almost none of them go to hunt the agarwood in the forest for living. They got the informations from the hunters or dealers, some informations maybe not correct, cause the misleading. My grandfather was a agarwood hunter before, he went to the forest to hunt the agarwood from 1960 to 1990, he met different type wild agarwood, but he don’t know what is kinam. At that time, should be no one hunter in China know what is kinam. After 1990’s, Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore agarwood dealers came to China to buy agarwood, they taught us what is kinam. Since the kinam can sell at much higher price, the hunters and dealers described the kinam they got are top quality, even they hunt the kinam from not a big tree, they will not say it out.

 

[LJH]

Regarding “all of us have been told over and over and over again for all these years that this wood can only come from ancient wild trees and we have all come to accept this as dogma.”, I think it is a secret in the agarwood industry for a long time. Until 10 plus years ago, we bought the wild small kinam tree from the hunters. We noticed that kinam should not cause ancient wild trees.
In the agarwood industry, some dealer or writer would like to describe clear, but almost none of them go to hunt the agarwood in the forest for living. They got the informations from the hunters or dealers, some informations maybe not correct, cause the misleading. My grandfather was a agarwood hunter before, he went to the forest to hunt the agarwood from 1960 to 1990, he met different type wild agarwood, but he don’t know what is kinam. At that time, should be no one hunter in China know what is kinam. After 1990’s, Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore agarwood dealers came to China to buy agarwood, they taught us what is kinam. Since the kinam can sell at much higher price, the hunters and dealers described the kinam they got are top quality, even they hunt the kinam from not a big tree, they will not say it out.

But i thought that kynam was mentioned in chinese text and doctrines way before that

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Tony Li]

But i thought that kynam was mentioned in chinese text and doctrines way before that

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Yes, it did. Kinam was mentioned in Chinese Tex and doctrines way. According to the history we learned in China, in Tang Dynasty and Song Dynasty (one thousand plus years ago), the Royalty, official and rich people were using the agarwood incense, they knew the kinam already. At that period the culture has been disseminated to Japan. In Dongguan City, Guangdong, people planted the agarwood trees one thousand years ago, and supply the agarwood to the Royalty. The plantation at that period is not like the plantation now, they are totally nature, can grow high quality agarwood, the common people are not allowed to use agarwood. After the year of 1949, the chairman Mao period, the incense is not allowed in China, the agarwood trees were cut down to plant others. There still have some trees in some remote area, or high mountains. Hongkong is a small area, the trees there not be cut down at that time. The hunters in China be stoped in that time also, and restart after the year of 1970, I think there should be some people in China still knew the kinam at that time, but for the hunters, they don’t know already.

 

[LJH]

Yes, it did. Kinam was mentioned in Chinese Tex and doctrines way. According to the history we learned in China, in Tang Dynasty and Song Dynasty (one thousand plus years ago), the Royalty, official and rich people were using the agarwood incense, they knew the kinam already. At that period the culture has been disseminated to Japan. In Dongguan City, Guangdong, people planted the agarwood trees one thousand years ago, and supply the agarwood to the Royalty. The plantation at that period is not like the plantation now, they are totally nature, can grow high quality agarwood, the common people are not allowed to use agarwood. After the year of 1949, the chairman Mao period, the incense is not allowed in China, the agarwood trees were cut down to plant others. There still have some trees in some remote area, or high mountains. Hongkong is a small area, the trees there not be cut down at that time. The hunters in China be stoped in that time also, and restart after the year of 1970, I think there should be some people in China still knew the kinam at that time, but for the hunters, they don’t know already.

Really learnt alot from your posts ! [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Makakilo]

Aloha Everyone,
Just wanted to confirm without any doubt that Alex the perfumist is indeed most definitely a scam artist and a cheat. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt and placed a 500 dollar order for two of his sample packs. I began researching more and more after reading some negative reviews about him and his products. What I found was a mixed bag because there are some positive things online but when I dig deeper I discovered that those positive things like reviews on fragrabtica were made by people who low and behold only left reviews for products sold by Alex the perfumist. Smelt fishy but then when my sample packs arrived I was shocked. Not only were his oils synthetic garbage that made my head hurt but he even forgot one of the 50 dollar samples! Yes it was that bad. There was simply no question that I was trying to be taken for a ride. I immediately asked for a refund but told him I didn’t want to pay the hundred dollars it would cost me to DHL it back to him from Saudi Arabia. He then refused to refund my money saying it wasn’t fair for me to keep the oils and get my money back. I said whatever and contacted the bank to open a dispute. Guess what, I didn’t even have to explain the situation to the bank because they obviously investigated Alex the perfumist and gave me my money back no questions asked. Word to the wise, stay away from the troll that is Alex the perfumist in Houston TX. Here is his final email verbatim:

On 23 Apr 2020, at 5:15 AM, info <[email protected]> wrote:
It seems that you tried to get some oils for free just like many of the people on the forum you listed, which all know well that the oils we offer are better than anything that was ever sold on this fourm actually the lab test of our oils are mentioned on that same fourm.

Without saying that the return policy and refund policy is clearly explained on the site and without saying that all our oils are lab tested in top USA labs and without saying that any other company won't even take a return on open and used samples back and without saying that this fourm is run by vendors who non of them tested or listed a test of their products, and without saying that you were hesitant to return those oils in the first place. I will say this

I was ready to receive the shipment back and give you a full refund even though those samples cost us much more than 80$ but after this pathetic attempt of solicitation and this threat.

Here is my answer to you and you don't have to wait till Monday It's NOTHING

not even a return or an exchange and feel free to do whatever you like, and consider this as a final refusal of business.

Alex

 

[Mr.P]

I felt it was pretty obvious from his posts here he was full of sh**. Sorry you got sucked in and REALLY glad you got your money back and wasted his time and effort. That at least is one payback for all the time and disappointment you have to deal with for having been duped by this guy... at least in the end he/they had also paid a price in terms of time and materials.

That’s the problem with this oud biz. Anyone can say anything they want. Organic. Kinam. Kyara. Wild. “Incense Grade”, “medicinal grade”, 100 years old, distilled in 1902, etc. and it may all be true or all be B.S. someone has to take the risk of finding out first hand. Thanks for “taking one for the team”... it is far safer to stay with the folks who have been so well reviewed here.

 

[Mr.P]

I mean when the dude tried flashing $10,000 in $100 bills as if this proved something...

 

[Bigboy]

I mean when the dude tried flashing $10,000 in $100 bills as if this proved something...

Im willing to bet a majority of people on this forum could flash a lot more than that...certainly in oil ..but for what ? Its tremendously distasteful!

 

[KodoKing]

Aloha Everyone,
Just wanted to confirm without any doubt that Alex the perfumist is indeed most definitely a scam artist and a cheat. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt and placed a 500 dollar order for two of his sample packs. I began researching more and more after reading some negative reviews about him and his products. What I found was a mixed bag because there are some positive things online but when I dig deeper I discovered that those positive things like reviews on fragrabtica were made by people who low and behold only left reviews for products sold by Alex the perfumist. Smelt fishy but then when my sample packs arrived I was shocked. Not only were his oils synthetic garbage that made my head hurt but he even forgot one of the 50 dollar samples! Yes it was that bad. There was simply no question that I was trying to be taken for a ride. I immediately asked for a refund but told him I didn’t want to pay the hundred dollars it would cost me to DHL it back to him from Saudi Arabia. He then refused to refund my money saying it wasn’t fair for me to keep the oils and get my money back. I said whatever and contacted the bank to open a dispute. Guess what, I didn’t even have to explain the situation to the bank because they obviously investigated Alex the perfumist and gave me my money back no questions asked. Word to the wise, stay away from the troll that is Alex the perfumist in Houston TX. Here is his final email verbatim:

On 23 Apr 2020, at 5:15 AM, info <[email protected]> wrote:
It seems that you tried to get some oils for free just like many of the people on the forum you listed, which all know well that the oils we offer are better than anything that was ever sold on this fourm actually the lab test of our oils are mentioned on that same fourm.

Without saying that the return policy and refund policy is clearly explained on the site and without saying that all our oils are lab tested in top USA labs and without saying that any other company won't even take a return on open and used samples back and without saying that this fourm is run by vendors who non of them tested or listed a test of their products, and without saying that you were hesitant to return those oils in the first place. I will say this

I was ready to receive the shipment back and give you a full refund even though those samples cost us much more than 80$ but after this pathetic attempt of solicitation and this threat.

Here is my answer to you and you don't have to wait till Monday It's NOTHING

not even a return or an exchange and feel free to do whatever you like, and consider this as a final refusal of business.

Alex

WOW - Sorry bro - truly unfortunate that some people treat this cherished scarcity with such hate and selfishness.

Live and learn - I guess...

 

[Ouddict]

The offending post was the subject of a complaint. The admins and mods have not acted on it and I think maybe its best as the responses clearly show the level of opposition to the claims. Unless the admins/mods decide otherwise, it will stay up for everyone to see and facepalm...

 

[Makakilo]

For what it’s worth I believe my experience and the experience of others along with the nonsense that Alex preaches should remain on the forum for people to read and come to their own conclusions. I certainly wouldn’t have risked 500 dollars if I knew his oils were equivalent to what I can find here at most gas stations in the Middle East. But now people can read and be warned that his stuff is nothing extraordinary, rare and natural as he professes.