Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Aug 3, 2016.
It's hard bro !
@Benyben how do you feel about this?
But that's not what this thread is about, and you're responding to a different issue than I posted about. If you're calling out specific vendors for selling the same product for more than another vendor it seems that's a totally different issue vs the much more general title of this thread. I completely agree that rating vendors, including their pricing and perceived value is valuable to the community though. It's just not on topic... you're moving the goal posts, creating a strawman, etc...
I'll stick to what I said about the overall pricing of oud, not counting outliers that might charge "unfair" prices. It is what it is and I feel nobody here is in a position to generalize about it as they don't know the facts and specifics about pricing and to be honest, who are they to judge anyways? So IMO it's whining and I can't see how it's helpful unless it's just to create animosity. I mean, BN forums did get shut down for a reason and topics like this are one of the reasons.
Sorry but I thought BN got shut down due to a legal threat made to their admin. Anyway, customers spend their hard earned cash on Oud and have every right to question vendors, don't you think?
Now I understand why the $2500 bottles are still flowing like Champagne....
This a discussion forum, one thought leads to another, one idea enlightens the brain to another, all pour in the same subject. There are reasons people call oud overpriced, are they all true and reasonable? No they aren't necessary, but can be a brain teaser to think in depth about the subject and see why they are thinking like this. It's even vague to say "What do we feel about cost of Oud oil" which lead @PEARL to bring another level of thinking. I think the buyers nowadays are more aware and don't whine haphazardly.
Read the OP post:
"We always hear and have heard how some people feel Oud is overpriced. It would be interesting to see generelly how ouddicts feel about the cost of Oud. I can appreciate as humans we may feel most things are overpriced as cheaper is always better but honestly speaking how do you guys feel? The Oud scene is alot broader now than it was before with more access to different vendors and products with varying prices. There are many factors to take into consideration when making this conclusion individually but it would be interesting to see the thoughts of the members."
And look at the responses by the members thereafter wether they agree or not, most of these posts are insightful and there is no real whining here.
You posted generalized response about the general overall price of oud without giving any specifications while saying "nobody here is in a position to generalize about it as they don't know the facts and specifics about pricing and to be honest, who are they to judge anyways?" And you judged the buyers so it's mutual. Are you aware that there are members here who are side by side with some distillers?
And no its faraway from the final era of BN, at least at the moment...
You'd be surprised... we've already had the legal threat, but it's been laughed off as there is no basis behind it and we won't be cowed into silence.
By the way, excellent post.
Hmmm, it makes sense now about the sudden collapse of BN oud forum!
Excellent post Ammar
If you see the crux of the matter is we all love the Vendors out there and I really do think that we have to support there business but the issue is with the prices only. Distillers who are selling at cheap prices (I mean at par products) rings the bell here and we do understand that distiller cost for running business and the cost of living is much lower than the artisans here. We understand that and are willing to pay the premium to artisans, but question is how much?Although I've never bought from the distillers directly yet but any person who regularly read the forums can form this opinion that somewhere outside the online oud world, good quality products are available at more reasonable rates.
One more thing I've noticed is that we consumers are not providing real data to vendors as well... and I think time has come that we look to resolve the issue rather than beating the same bush again and again.
I am sort of comfortable saying that there is a very high chance that Vendors do not test each other products before coming up with their own pricing of a similar category product. Neither forums are providing data to them of a similar category product... whenever someone tries to raise the voice he/she is put down with tecnical bombardment. Also if you see there will be a lot of members out there who are not as technical as others are, that may cause some of them not to raise any voice. We actually need to come up with some mechanism to provide vital data to the businesses out there and I think polling is one of the best way to do it as I suggested earlier that under each profile category we need to list the products and the ask consumers to rate the product for different features and cast their opinion about product pricing vs quality without having a fear of retaliation.
We have thrashed vendors too much now... sometime correctly and sometime without knowingly. We need to be constructive here rather than going into circles that we are doing for a long time.
Lol, I'm not buying them! But otoh I'm also not offended by their existence... I have never experienced an oud oil commanding those prices so I have no comment on their possible merits vs less expensive oils. If anyone wants to send me some $1000/g oil I will certainly share my views though!
I do think it's unfortunate that oud sells for what it does, but it is what it is... I'd also like to buy a Ferrari for 1/10th what they cost these days but no auto manufacturer has stepped up to the plate to provide an alternative at those prices, and wishing things were different is never going to make one happy.
Wow, I did not know there were legal threats involved. That's too bad, but congrats for ignoring it as I can't see any basis for it either. If there was all forums would be in trouble! I am surprised Grant/BN would take such a threat seriously. Forums are never responsible for the content posted by users afaik.
I totally agree with your last two sentences! IMO... (flame suit on!) some with no taste have been overly critical. Just like wine, coffee, audio quality, etc... some are much more discerning than others and we don't all have equally sharp or trained senses. Actual human beings who own small businesses and are following their passion have been attacked in disgusting ways with no empathy. I certainly hope this can or has changed and people can express themselves more constructively or appropriately.
@Dorje the Nissan GTR did exactly what you said maybe not at 1/10th of the price but its amazing bang for the buck. If its happend to Ferrari it will most likely happen and is happening in the Oud world
Hahaha wallah when I read @Dorje's comment I directly thought of Nissan GTR
Love that car BTW
Some people would have a really hard time equating a GT-R with a Ferrari because of many different factors... it's not necessarily the performance specs, it's what it FEELS like to drive a Ferrari that the GT-R, as great as it is, cannot replicate. Is it worth it to spend 3x as much on a Ferrari? Well, that's a personal decision that one must decide for themselves, but it's not fair to bash Ferrari for being way too expensive based on the mere existence of the GT-R. I don't know too many that would choose the GT-R if they can afford a Ferrari...
Personally, I drive a Subaru STi as it fits my budget better than a GT-R. I'm not rich by any means!
Also, I would pick a Corvette as an example of a good "budget" sports car, the GT-R is a bit bland imo.
You are assuming in behave of @Dorje, there is no mention he is specifically referring to this price range type of oud "I have never experienced an oud oil commanding those prices so I have no comment on their possible merits vs less expensive oils.". Otherwise, I simply agree, but again there were few insightful questions not seems that whiny (although several were whiny) put on the table at one time when I was defending these oils like why an oil with high percentage of sinking grade wood sold in the range $700-800 while other high end oil incense-grade non-sinking sold for $2500? I answered but to be honest not sure if my response covers all the truth as the others also responded in objective way.
Regarding why “the people are whining because those ultra luxury, heirloom oils are not priced as everyday oils” again you are assuming in behave of the buyers, there is no proof this is the reason. I doubt anyone sane want these high end oils to be priced as everyday oils, it simply would not happened.
Regarding “There are 30 currently available oils ranging in price from $70-300, if those are considered overpriced than I think we need to alter our expectations of what pure oud oils cost.” I totally agree.
All this talk about Oud in the 1000'$ range has got me in the mood to sleep with this tonight
GT-R all day long... Ferrari is for pretentious individuals.
Aren’t we all here with the same tools? The best possible approach we have...Although IMO the conclusion that the overall buyers are unreasonably whining is almost takes the same turn as the conclusion by the buyers that oud are overall unreasonably priced.
There are always few people who are whining and would not be satisfied even if you provide to them the highest oil for the cheapest price. These people are annoying but easily controllable when the atmosphere shows reasonable discussion in civilized manner without generalized over judgement.
“the people are whining because those ultra luxury, heirloom oils are not priced as everyday oils”
Yes - I think this is not a reasonable assumption to make. This is a straw-man argument I think.
I don't see what the problem is though with the pricey oils. No big deal. Whether some / any / all of these are worth it or not is ultimately not a question that can be answered definitively for all oils. I personally don't mind hearing diverse perspectives on pricing and the marketing game. I am certain there are many reasonably priced truly amazing gems and many over-hyped and overpriced oils. If not for forums like this no one would have a chance to sort them out...
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