What do we feel about cost of Oud oils?

Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Aug 3, 2016.

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What do we feel about cost of Oud oil?

  1. Way Overpriced

    26 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. High

    28 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Unreasonable

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. Fair

    13 vote(s)
    18.6%
  5. Cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Way too cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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    Jk i enjoyed that you have maybe mentioned factors consumers are unaware of which vendors have to take into consideration when pricing oils. Theres more to it than just wood and pots and its only fair people are made aware of this before making a judgment. I think honesty is the key, fair trade Oud. Storys are better left for novels & tales or for those who enjoy a little bit of fictional exitment.
     
  2. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    I would say the demand is high. I am constantly competing against Gulf and China market buyers to get my hands on great woods - especially to sell as chips. The people that I work with often give me first dibs on woods. The problem is that they already know how much they can sell a piece or a lot to one of their other buyers. Which means we get stuck paying the prices those other markets command. Why sell to me @$10 or $12/g when they can get $15 or $20 (or sometimes $30 or $40 or more!) per gram to one of their other clients?

    The reality is, if you want great Wood - we're going to end up having to pay for it.

    This effects both our chips we sell as chips - and those we use to distill.
     
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  3. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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  4. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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  5. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    Some more articles that may be of interest.

    Please take note of just how many different variables and different formulary schematics there are for coming up with a price tag.
    *It isn't just the cost of the wood, as many have been led to believe* Where I come from, that is called Malarkey.

    Each business has different costs, and their own pricing schematics - which makes it VERY difficult to compare these specific products from different vendors (Oud and Agarwood) in a 1:1 kind of way. It's best to keep that in mind - cost and value are two different things. To quote one of the above articles,

    "The biggest mistake many businesses make is to believe that price alone drives sales. Your ability to sell is what drives sales and that means hiring the right sales people and adopting the right sales strategy. "The first thing you have to understand is the selling price is a function of your ability to sell and nothing else," says Lawrence L. Steinmetz, co-author of How to Sell at Margins Higher Than Your Competitors : Winning Every Sale at Full Price, Rate, or Fee (Wiley 2005) and a business consultant in Boulder, Colo. for 40 years. "What's the difference between an $8,000 Rolex and a $40 Seiko watch? The Seiko is a better time piece. It's far more accurate"¦. The difference is your ability to sell."

    Some more reading to enjoy:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/3-po...ies-businesses-should-always-consider-2013-10

    https://www.shopify.com/retail/120028547-9-strategies-for-profitably-pricing-your-retail-products

    http://www.marketingdonut.co.uk/marketing-strategy/pricing/seven-ways-to-price-your-product
     
  6. Mr.P

    Mr.P Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks jk. I have to say though that I think folks generally do understand that it costs money to run a business - in fact I feel like this is a conversation we have explored before in detail.

    This is something shared by all businesses, so on a certain level it is totally irrelevant to someone buying oud. Some vendors are more efficient than others and so are able to reduce some of these costs and maybe pass those savings on to consumers. Some maybe have bigger or smaller profit margins based on how they manage all this stuff.

    In the end though consumers will be looking at price and quality and cannot really analyze all the variables that cause each vendor to price things however they do. I mean, it is sort of interesting to read the stories of risk and adventure and all that, but really if someone thinks a price is unfair, it will be based on what they believe to be a reasonable price in the market as a whole. No one in their right mind would begrudge a vendor the chance to make a living. But no one wants to be taken for a ride or paying high prices because someone has managed their business in a way that is not efficient or in a way that does not add any value proportional to the expense added as a consequence of the business plan or model or whatever.

    Some folks will sell good oud at reasonable prices, others won't. Vendors will be judged relative to one another and all we can actually assess is what we like, who is offering good value relative to other vendors, and what we can or cannot spend.

    I am reminded of something - I saw one post on another forum about a vendor being outraged that someone dared to ask for a discount (on account of how difficult and expensive it is to produce etc. etc.) but this is kind of "prima-Donna-ish". Consumers cannot assess this stuff. If a person's method of acquiring oud prevents them from offering a price a consumer wants to pay well... change jobs, find another way to get oud, find consumers with so much money they don't ask questions, whatever but don't get your knickers twisted because someone is trying to save money. We all work hard to make ends meet - it is no more reasonable to expect someone to give away oud at a loss than it is to expect consumers to just gratefully lap up whatever you offer them.
     
  7. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    @Mr.P,
    You mean “Primo-Uomo-ish”, don't you? LOL!

    Aside from the literate joke, great post indeed…
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
    F4R1d0uX likes this.
  8. PEARL

    PEARL Guerrilla

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    48% of responders to the poll feel that oud oils are way overpriced.

    I looked at some of the popular and trusted vendors and found these prices; 30 currently available pure oud oils all right at or below $300/bottle, in fact most(18) are under $200/bottle and a few under $100/bottle.

    Agarwood Indonesia-1@ $150($450/tola); 1@ $340/tola.
    Agarwood Assam-3@ $70-175
    Alexander Oudh-3@ $135-170
    Al Shareef Oudh-3@$240-265
    Ensar Oud-2@ $250
    Feel Oud-1@ $150($490/tola); 1@ $175; 2@ $300
    Imperial Oud-3@ $115-195; 5@ $225-275
    JK-1@ $195
    Oudimentary-4@ $83-167

    The market is increasing so there are likely some vendors I've forgotten about and I didn't list any of the distiller direct oils; but as can be seen, there are many options. I think a better question for those who responded or feel oud oils are way overpriced could be....

    What do you expect to pay for pure oud oil?
     
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  9. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

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    You are right brother @PEARL I just paid 100$ for an oil from a seller listed here and my review is about to come ...
     
  10. Dorje

    Dorje Junior Member

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    Same old topic, would have thought people would get tired of whining...

    It really depends on how you look at it... overall, from a high level it can seem unreasonable but considering the current situation of wild wood being more difficult to find and it's value it makes sense. 10 years from now prices are likely to be much higher and AFAIK, it's been an exceptionally valuable substance throughout history, so my opinion is the current cost is what it is. There's no use complaining and whining about it. If other folks could offer it for less they will get a ton of business but oddly enough there doesn't seem to be any... imo the value relationship is pretty even among vendors... if you consider less expensive oils only a minor difference vs expensive than great, but it is subjective and personally I don't find lower grade oud worthwhile at any price, I'd rather wear a nice mukh/attar. To each their own...
     
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  11. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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    I don't think its a case of people whining but more so this topic has brought out interesting views from people about their feelings linked to the cost of Oud. Like with any market the cost of a product is always looked at and discussed. With many trusted vendors now we can see how and why a Oud is priced how it is whether it be due to raw material, age etc. Before the scene was quite limited to vendors so prices where pretty easy to i'll use the word control. With competition usually price is the first aspect that is affected and we have seen this happen and maybe those who thought Oud was overpriced may re-think. I agree there are many different angles to look at this and its not simple to just say Oud is overpriced, i'm sure the people who voted have some experience and knowledge on the product they love dearly and hopefully haven't just made a quick decision. Recently there have been some releases of quality Oud at great prices and we see more of these from trusted vendors for example Kyarazen's few releases, Imperial Oud's FH. Again this is so subjective to each person but overall the poll gives us an idea of how members who voted feel and that should be respected.
     
  12. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

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    Nuclear bro !
     
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  13. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    @Dorje,
    I think you are in no position to generalize the term whining upon the buyers. There is difference between unreasonable whining than raising general awareness. There is difference between a vendor who is writing long posts about how to run successful business selling oud oil for $390/3g compared to another vender who was selling an oil for $165/3g of similar quality, same type of wood, same distillation year, and possibly from the same distiller, and between a vendor who is openly show and announce the price of the wood, the grade of wood, the distillation technique, and the yield selling the oil for $700/2.5g. The former business model I don't support the latter I wholeheartedly support despite the apparent high price tag.

    As I remember from BN, your taste in oud is more of Agar Aura type of oils, the airy delicate fleeting type of aromas, so you probably left with no more choices to choose from to satisfy your taste, but for the other buyers who are more broad in their taste or they just prefer the dense solid base oudiness type of oils they mostly have more options to look at and compare between each vendors price wise vs quality and probably would get better oil at better price in their opinion or even objectively.

    Plus what have @Habz786 posted...
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  14. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

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    It's hard bro !
     
  15. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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    @Benyben how do you feel about this?
     
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  16. Dorje

    Dorje Junior Member

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    But that's not what this thread is about, and you're responding to a different issue than I posted about. If you're calling out specific vendors for selling the same product for more than another vendor it seems that's a totally different issue vs the much more general title of this thread. I completely agree that rating vendors, including their pricing and perceived value is valuable to the community though. It's just not on topic... you're moving the goal posts, creating a strawman, etc...

    I'll stick to what I said about the overall pricing of oud, not counting outliers that might charge "unfair" prices. It is what it is and I feel nobody here is in a position to generalize about it as they don't know the facts and specifics about pricing and to be honest, who are they to judge anyways? So IMO it's whining and I can't see how it's helpful unless it's just to create animosity. I mean, BN forums did get shut down for a reason and topics like this are one of the reasons.
     
    PEARL likes this.
  17. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    Sorry but I thought BN got shut down due to a legal threat made to their admin. Anyway, customers spend their hard earned cash on Oud and have every right to question vendors, don't you think?
     
  18. firdaous

    firdaous Oud Kinamic

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    Now I understand why the $2500 bottles are still flowing like Champagne....
     
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  19. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    This a discussion forum, one thought leads to another, one idea enlightens the brain to another, all pour in the same subject. There are reasons people call oud overpriced, are they all true and reasonable? No they aren't necessary, but can be a brain teaser to think in depth about the subject and see why they are thinking like this. It's even vague to say "What do we feel about cost of Oud oil" which lead @PEARL to bring another level of thinking. I think the buyers nowadays are more aware and don't whine haphazardly.

    Read the OP post:
    "We always hear and have heard how some people feel Oud is overpriced. It would be interesting to see generelly how ouddicts feel about the cost of Oud. I can appreciate as humans we may feel most things are overpriced as cheaper is always better but honestly speaking how do you guys feel? The Oud scene is alot broader now than it was before with more access to different vendors and products with varying prices. There are many factors to take into consideration when making this conclusion individually but it would be interesting to see the thoughts of the members."

    And look at the responses by the members thereafter wether they agree or not, most of these posts are insightful and there is no real whining here.

    You posted generalized response about the general overall price of oud without giving any specifications while saying "nobody here is in a position to generalize about it as they don't know the facts and specifics about pricing and to be honest, who are they to judge anyways?" And you judged the buyers so it's mutual. Are you aware that there are members here who are side by side with some distillers?

    And no its faraway from the final era of BN, at least at the moment...
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  20. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    You'd be surprised... we've already had the legal threat, but it's been laughed off as there is no basis behind it and we won't be cowed into silence.

    By the way, excellent post.
     

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