What do we feel about cost of Oud oils?

Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Aug 3, 2016.

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What do we feel about cost of Oud oil?

  1. Way Overpriced

    26 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. High

    28 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Unreasonable

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. Fair

    13 vote(s)
    18.6%
  5. Cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Way too cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Mr.P

    Mr.P Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree. I think some ouds are over priced but it is difficult to know which are and which aren't. Some ouds smell so delightful they are on some level priceless, but this is not the majority of them. As a consumer we really have no way of knowing. there are plenty of stories floating around to convince us that it would be an insult to expect better prices or (shudder) discounts. Some of this seems believable but who really knows?
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  2. Bengal Roots

    Bengal Roots Resident Artisan

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    Hello Everyone,

    Very interesting topic. As a vendor I started with this practice to distribute free samples to many & I mean at no cost. Not even shipping. But very few acknowledged this kind of gesture. Most did not even bothered to review (good or bad) doesn't matter. Till date! Some took my sample distribution in context that I am desperate to do anything for business. Some kept demanding thereafter for more free goodies. Some now wanted to buy my products but they wanted at their price (Zimbabwean Dollar). Only few handful appreciated my work & till date support with full faith and buy my products in confidence.

    I thrive to keep it fair. I know some vendors are expensive and unreasonable. However, there are some vendors with genuine products and real prices. There are lot of factors affecting the price & there are lot of hurdles for vendors as well which affects the cost. To make this synergy work it should be in good faith. Else, soon a good customer will loose a good vendor. If the vendor can't sustain eventually he will be out of business. So will be his work of Oud.

    *Please take this as my honest opinion. Just a thought.
     
    Nikhil S, Ammar, AbasFrag and 4 others like this.
  3. Mandeel AlMandeel

    Mandeel AlMandeel Oud Geek Staff Member

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    Welcome back @Bengal Roots with best wishes ...
     
    Bengal Roots likes this.
  4. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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    Welcome @Bengal Roots nice to see Ouddict attracting so many vendors thats what the Oud community want and need. All the best with your products and i agree free samples can sometimes be abused thats why its good to have a review free samples agreement before posting.
     
  5. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    I remember when Adam @feel-oud offered here months ago a big sampler pack for 10 customers or so free of charge only paying shipping fee in return of honest review weather positive or negative for CQI, and I have't seen a single review since then??
     
  6. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    Welcome back...
     
  7. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    If that is the case, then it is a shame and the members who took that Oud from Adam should have left a review as requested. Come on guys... do the right thing.
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel, AbasFrag and Ammar like this.
  8. IM_AU

    IM_AU Whats this Oud About?

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    In current market pricing I will tend to agree with your experience but don't forget there is also a psychological favour for the expensive oud... unfortunately we tend to give more importance to expensive product compared to reasonably priced product to satisfy ourself that the expensive product that we've bought worth it... but question is how much superior is this expensive product compared to inexpensive product... if it is only 25% better than I will question why the price is 2 to 3 times higher. I was just crunching some numbers to see how much efforts does it take for an average salaried person to hold a 3ml artisan bottle and I took a rough example that if a person earns $25/hr it will take him 20 hours to afford at least a $500 artisan bottle which is still may not be top of the range... this is some serious money and effort. I cannot dictate the pricing here but I guess what I am trying to say is that we need to come out of associating expensive = good quality equation. We as a buyer should pressure vendors to come out with fair price for a good quality... mind you these vendors already know that buyer always associate higher price to a good quality and they may be taking advantage of that.
    Cheers!
     
    riviera274, Ammar, JohnH and 4 others like this.
  9. firdaous

    firdaous Oud Kinamic

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    @IM_AU excellent post! One of the best one today!
     
  10. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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    You hit the nail on the head, today i'm wearing ASAQ king abdullah blend
     
    Nikhil S likes this.
  11. jensz

    jensz Administrator Staff Member

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    Great point @IM_AU! Would love to know if anyone ever did blind tests so that the bias favoring known-expensive oils can be eliminated.

    On the other hand, knowing an oil is expensive, I expect a lot from it, so there is big room for an oil to fall short. But then it's quite circular: our brains work to reinforce existing preferences and expectations. It is a conundrum!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
    F4R1d0uX likes this.
  12. AbasFrag

    AbasFrag Oud Burner

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    Words of gold... thank you. You opened my brain and wrote everything down.

    It's known that: the higher price the vendors sell the faster it gets sold. ... I've heard it from many different vendors themselves.
     
  13. Mandeel AlMandeel

    Mandeel AlMandeel Oud Geek Staff Member

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    The answer are normal person like me and you specially not expert with ouds or anything else not just oud , when he see the price are so expansive he will think this oil are special and he will love to get it , that is humans act also that successful marketing technique ...
     
    jalil and Habz786 like this.
  14. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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  15. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

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    AbasFrag likes this.
  16. jalil

    jalil Oud bully Staff Member

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    @IM_AU the problem with oud is you are NEVER shure to have pound for pound.
     
  17. IM_AU

    IM_AU Whats this Oud About?

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    @jalil this is another big misconception... you can never have pound to pound (apple to apple) comparison... vendors used different raw materials and we know tweaking the distillation parameters can also result in different outcome. We judge the end result and based on experience we get satisfied or unsatisfied for the price we've paid.

    As a general comment, since basenotes I've seen vendors claiming that they have done back breaking work, worked tirelessly day and night to bring the product. Well!!! customers who are affording this hobby also work 8 to 10 hours a day to earn for their families and supporting their hobby... therefore I always disregard and give less importance to this statement from vendors. I think this statement should be avoided, just my opinion.

    Coming back to the point I raised, customers are the driving force here... since we have linked higher price tag to higher quality therefore we see pricing like this. I was very mindful of not starting this debate as I don't want to reflect bad on the vendors. I urge my post should not be linked to any specific vendor.

    As a consumer I consider that a normal oud lover is penalised because of buying power of rich oud lovers. How many times we have seen if a customer raise his concern that why a product is 3-4 times more in pricing when it is only 20% better? We then see fan boys in action trying to convince that it is because of nuances. We actually disregard the fact that the poor guy would have went through lot of sacrifices to save the money for the bottle, to find out it was actually the subtle difference that makes the product 2-3 times higher.

    This is some serious money involved in this hobby and we don't need to be protective and sensitive about the vendors... we should ask:
    • If an artisan claims to have 3X higher yield - Why the price is not three times cheaper?
    • If these artisans are real artisans why can't they continually produce beautifully smelling product using ordinary product and show the audience their capability?
    • Why is that beautiful smelling product always comes from expensive raw materials?
    • Artisan is the one who can convert ordinary into extra ordinary but why the prices are extra ordinary?
    I have a strong feeling that oud market pricing is heavily based on end product experience. If a vendor achieves a great result using the ordinary product he will still put his product on the higher premium regardless of cost. I am not trying to accuse anybody here, as a consumer these are opinions that I've formed.

    In my opinion Online market will need a price correction and more vendors coming online will improve that slowly. Current online vendors should take low and middle tier segment of customers seriously as I believe there is a demand out there... producing artisan stuff in lower price range doesn't hurt the business... it will show capabilities of the vendor and will encourage customers to buy full bottles rather than the samples.

    My suggestion to the website administrator is that we should create a separate thread for each product and then do the poll on following:
    • Silage
    • Lasting
    • Quality
    • Price
    • Any other
    Doing poll will give opportunity to all of us (including silent members) to cast our vote without being bashed :), this will also provide a very useful data to the Vendors to see where they are standing in the market. We can do product sub grouping as:
    • Malaysian Oils
    • Indian Oils
    • Burmese Oils
    • Etc.
    Under each category, we should list the products and then do the polls.

    Sorry for the long post again

    Cheers!
     
  18. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    @IM_AU,
    The problem of oud is that to achieve a minimum of 25% higher quality scent wise it may need to use a grade of wood that is double or triple the price maybe which in turn reflects on the price of the juiced oil. In addition, what is considered a good quality to someone might not to be so to another which leads sometimes to the debate about wether this oil worth the price or the opposite worth every penny. I don't know how this debate can be resolved easily as it's connected mostly to personal preferences on different aspects. But I agree with you about some venders endless efforts to connnect the quality of oud to the grade of wood, hence the high price sometimes to nonsense levels as I mentioned here long time ago.

    Now with the help of some venders like Imperial Oud, Feel-Oud, agarwoodindonesia and some private distillers that are gaing gradual trust from respected members here the oud market is more broadly based these days compared to the Oriescent era for example and can easily satisfy the need of everyone.

    Regarding the psychological effect linking the price to the quality, there is none of that to the expert noses.

    For the labor of work compared to the rediculous prices of oud, I totally agree.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    PEARL likes this.
  19. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    You hit the nail on the head, there has to be a disassociation of high price with high quality. I remember some time back I wrote about how high quality oils that we were able to release at lower prices, did not sell as many as high quality oils at higher prices. I think there is definitely a human element in us that associate higher price tags to higher quality items. This is somewhat re-enforced by the world we live in, most high quality items have a higher price tag, the reasons are many why that is so, but ultimately I agree with you, that the consumer is in the driving seat. Informed decisions by the consumer to say "I will not buy at that price" will definitely correct the market.

    Having said that, there is also another aspect we need to keep in mind, and that is items that are collectables. Those items are collectables because there are a group of people who find pleasure in collecting them, such as old phone cards, stamps, coca cola bottle tops, etc. To me those things have no value, but to some it is worth thousands of dollars. There has to be a distinction in the market between these two categories, collectable items, and standard purchase items.
     
    riviera274 likes this.
  20. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    @Al Shareef Oudh,
    And where do you put exactly your expensive high end oils? Is it in the first category side by side with Khulood for example or in the second category as collectable items that have only personal value?

    Is the phrase "I will not buy at that price" a universal statement even if the pricey oil worth the price when objectively analyzed?

    Is it possible to sell Al Malek series at $790 range not to mention a price tag of $550 which may also still considered pricey by some unsatisfied buyers?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017

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