What do we feel about cost of Oud oils?

Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Aug 3, 2016.

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What do we feel about cost of Oud oil?

  1. Way Overpriced

    26 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. High

    28 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Unreasonable

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. Fair

    13 vote(s)
    18.6%
  5. Cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Way too cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    Thanks for taking my question.

    There is no doubt that we all have preferences pretty much in everything we do. Those preferences will lead/guide us to our ultimate decision to engage, the engagement can be a purchase, a meal, or a new uniform. There is no question that when we can afford it we will pay for those preferences, based on what we think it is worth.

    The sense of smell like any of our other faculties develops over time, as we build our olfactory library of association, our senses become more acute to picking those smells. If a certain scent does not have an association in our olfactory library, we may pick up the smell but not be able to describe it or if we do attempt to describe it, then it will be limited by what is in the olfactory library. From that perspective we can continue to grow the library.

    As with regards to brands, brands can have a cult following because when we make association with a brand we also subconsciously assume that it is a part of ones 'attire' or 'look'. You can view some of the rage that goes on in Iphone and Samsung forums, however I agree with you that it does not happen because of an overdeveloped limbic system caused by oudh.

    Your two next theories are very real, sometimes as consumers we deal with a vendor not because they have the best product but because of the service they provide. Recently our business went through a IT upgrade, and Microsoft provided such an amazing remote service, that whilst there are niche custom tools for what we do, we continue to take our business to Microsoft for the service they provide us. This is true across all commodities and consumables, service to the consumer, conduct with the consumer and making the customer feel valued will be the pivotal elements that retain or drain customers.

    As with regards to your comment on post # 73 "And Al Shareef, what concerns me much much more than the impact of oud on the CNS (which I suspect has much more good than bad), is group mentality theory and how one or two people can lead others to think and believe in a common way, often against what they normally would on their own."

    You have definitely missed the worst part of group mentality in the online oudh scene, some of the old timers will tell you, apparently the group mentality was really bad in the earlier days. It again raises it's head every now and then, causes some damage such as the recent closure of BN, then it cools down for a while, then it flares up again.

    In the football league full year membership with all the main games is only a few hundred dollars, maybe a couple grand with some favours, and you can see how passionate fans get in those games, here in the oudh scene the values at stake are much higher because of how personal oudh is, or any scent for that matter.

    I am vehemently against group and fanboy mentality, because it is one of the key obstacles in the way of our online oudh community to progress forward. In our tradition when we visit friends, oudh is always on the offering. It brings people together and whilst every family has their favourite supplier they are more than happy to try someone else oudh and discuss into the early hours of the morning.

    The topic Ammar raised is of specific interest to me, as in our tradition our scholars, for example the great scholar of Madeenah Malik ibn Anas ibn Malik ibn `Amr, al-Imam, Abu `Abd Allah al-Humyari al-Asbahi always had oudh burning in his gatherings 'as it clears the mind and assists learning and retention. There is a lot of study going on currently on the Nonconscious effects of scent on cognition and behavior, here is an abstract from one of the studies, and it is very impressive, because many members feel they can meditate better with Oudh, and I remember Shabby saying that certain Hindi oils assist him when he is studying religious text;

    "Three studies explored whether odor can influence people's cognition and behavior without their being consciously aware of the influence. In two studies, we tested and confirmed that when participants were unobtrusively exposed to citrus-scented all-purpose cleaner, the mental accessibility of the behavior concept of cleaning was enhanced, as was indicated by faster identification of cleaning-related words in a lexical decision task and higher frequency of listing cleaning-related activities when describing expected behavior during the day. Finally, a third study established that the mere exposure to the scent of all-purpose cleaner caused participants to keep their direct environment more clean during an eating task. Awareness checks showed that participants were unaware of this influence. The present studies reveal the nonconscious influence that olfactory cues can have on thinking and doing."

    One other aspect that I think should be added to this discussion is combined affect of the oudh with the associated story or narrative that vendors put out with the oils.
    the impact when a combination of our senses are engaged.

     
    Ammar and jensz like this.
  2. PEARL

    PEARL Guerrilla

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    @jensz excellent commentary, definitely sticky material.
     
  3. Ammar

    Ammar Oud Fan

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    This also should be a sticky.
     
  4. bhanny

    bhanny Guest

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    Hey there, I appreciate the rest of your post and do find the science of olfaction on emotion, perception, memory, etc, fascinating. But I really would like to comment on the group/fanboy thing. Maybe we have different definitions, so I am going to use myself as an example.

    I am, as I'm sure many of you know, an unabashed Ensar fanboy. I love his ouds top to bottom. In most situations I prefer his oils. But just as you said, each family has their favorite supplier, they are more than happy to try other vendors oud and discuss it. So do I, that was the very reason I came here. Al Shareef, I have 5 full bottles of yours I believe, 3 or 4 Imperial Oud full bottles and samples on the way, 6 Feel Oud full bottles, 5 Agar Aura full bottles, and 2 Rising Phoenix full bottles. Even though I happen to have many more from Ensar, I wear all of them at times. I wear Ensars oils more, its not that I find the others bad, I just prefer his, they are more my personal style.

    So how does that make me bad or an obstacle to growth? I'm not trying to argue or flame, I'm truly asking. Don't I do exactly what you and your friends do in your tradition when visiting friends? I mean I've sampled and purchased oils based on each one of those vendors direct recommendations alone.
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  5. Mr.P

    Mr.P Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe don't take the posts personally, Bhanny, unless for some reason you feel it pertains or is directed especially at you
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  6. bhanny

    bhanny Guest

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    Hmm. His response WAS to me.
     
  7. Mr.P

    Mr.P Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm sorry - I missed the part where he said you personally were an obstacle to growth, etc. I will re-read the post more carefully.
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  8. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    @bhanny

    I have read that post a few times and I can tell you as Mr.P has, that my post was not aimed at you. Actually, I think in your own little way you are working for growth, i.e posting on multiple forums and experimenting with multiple oils.
     
    Ouddict and Mandeel AlMandeel like this.
  9. bhanny

    bhanny Guest

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    Hey guys! Mr. P, Al Shareef, I actually didn't take it as a direct post at me, just to me in a the sense it was as a response to a post of mine. I know at times it may appear I take things personally, that generally is not the case, I just approach some things in life rather passionately, especially when things challenge my own particular sense of right and wrong.

    In terms of the fanboy thing. I only illustrated my own experience to show that casting someone as fanboy based on a few reviews can be totally or partially inaccurate at best, and quite harmful both individually and to this Oud community as a whole.

    I guess my plea is for a little more tolerance across the board, and I most assuredly include myself in this. Let's drop our weapons, take a swipe or two or three of our favorite oils (I've actually had 4 vendors oils on at the same time before), and realize there is a place here for all of us, vendors and patrons alike. I don't know, it just seems crazy to have such contention, anger and controversy over such a beautiful thing.
     
    Ouddict and Habz786 like this.
  10. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    So back to the original question about pricing...

    Thought I'd share an article that covers some of the expenses outside of the cost of the wood, itself.

    I've said this before (and unfortunately - usually get attacked for it, despite simply trying to educate ) - there are many costs associated with running a business that factor into how products are priced.

    It's a good article - and most of it applies to Oud Vendors, while also overlooking some costs specific to this line of work a general perfume operation might not have to worry about.

    Enjoy!

    https://sonomascent.wordpress.com/2016/12/03/what-goes-into-running-an-artisan-perfume-business/
     
  11. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    hey bhanny, sometimes people get incorrect information that impacts their views, and it mixes in with the passion we all have for this wonderful gift of God. I think a fact check (for everyone on all information )is very important in such an environment.
     
    jalil likes this.
  12. firdaous

    firdaous Oud Kinamic

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    Interesting post on facebook from Tony Bolton:
    "Re visited the Oud shop today, Abdul Samad al Qurashi, in Yas mall, Kalakasi was the name of the oud, 2200 USD per Tola, 183USD per ml, for the very best Oud they had is not bad ,,,,,So it would seem that some of the oils sold on line are somewhat over priced,"
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  13. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    I've sampled the Kalakhassi when it was offered to me in Madina and I'm talking about the first batch. - 120 year old tree (apparently). They were offering it for $400 for 3g on a buy one get one free offer. I took one sniff and said no thanks. Ensar's Hindis such as Suleiman No. 1 are far better. That's just my take on it.
     
  14. riviera274

    riviera274 Administrator and Hindi Lover Staff Member

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    I own 2012 batch of 150y Kalakassi and I love it.Still today my favorite
     
    AbasFrag and Mandeel AlMandeel like this.
  15. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    I think that's the one I'm referring to. The batch I smelled had a slightly sharp pungent note which I didn't like.
     
  16. riviera274

    riviera274 Administrator and Hindi Lover Staff Member

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    Yes it does start out very pungent/somewhat sour
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  17. Mandeel AlMandeel

    Mandeel AlMandeel Oud Geek Staff Member

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    One of best oils I try are kalakassi and kannam ( thaqeel ) I don't know if aged or just fresh Oud but I know one thing they are unique oils and heavenly smell the asaq have many batches so you must know what ur buying like when I find my old batch thaqeel is different than new one 100% in gulf you still can find some old batches but not everywhere ...
     
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  18. firdaous

    firdaous Oud Kinamic

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    Indeed Kalakassi and Thaqeel (1st batches) are a part of the Oud history !
    Remembered Taha making a group buy on Basenotes for Thaqeel 7 or 8 years ago...;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  19. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    Hmmm... how does it develop??!!! Did I make a mistake not buying it all those years ago?!!
     
    Mandeel AlMandeel likes this.
  20. riviera274

    riviera274 Administrator and Hindi Lover Staff Member

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    I wouldn't say you made a mistake.If its not for you,its not for you.I hear some praise oils that I just don't like and learned,as I'm sure most of us have,not to always go of others judgements.It is sometimes helpful if the person is someone who enjoy the same oils as you,Anyway after the pungent opening settles down a little it gets very sweet with a little hay then goes to a rich milk chocolate with a little leather in the background then plums and that"metal note"that just somehow make me feel like a King.I found out that the less I use the more I can appreciate this oil.It doesn't take but the tip of toothpick to apply
     

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