What do we feel about cost of Oud oils?

Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Aug 3, 2016.

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What do we feel about cost of Oud oil?

  1. Way Overpriced

    26 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. High

    28 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Unreasonable

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. Fair

    13 vote(s)
    18.6%
  5. Cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Way too cheap

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    I can respond to this a little bit...

    In general I don't talk about my techniques much - I choose to talk about the oil. In the end, the scent is what matters, and I don't like how some vendors talked on and on about "technique" that in my opinion - ended up confusing or misleading people. Lord knows I got enough messages from folks bitching about their confusion.

    Oud for me is quite simple - and it's easier shown than said. Maybe I need to make some short videos of me making tea - as my approach comes largely from techniques from the kitchen. Anyone who cooks would "get" how simple this can be.

    Regarding your question about aging...

    Some oils come out smelling incredible and, in my opinion, are ready for sale. Others I shelve and age for 6-12 months or 2-3 years. No rhyme or reason to it other than sometimes too many things are in the shop, and other times I need something to add in and so one comes off the bench and up to bat.

    I find it really interesting how quickly some vendors sell out of their oils. I don't know if more people are buying their oils than mine, or if I am distilling more than they are. Literally some of my oils have been in the shop since I opened it. I don't get how an oil sells out in a week or a day, unless there was just 3 or 6 grams of it to sell.

    I bring this up because I have oils on in the shop that 'age as they sell'. They've been in the shop since their release. If it's taking me three years to sell off an oil - that oil will be different today than it was when I started selling it. This in part may answer your question about aging...by the time one gets around to trying something, it may have some age on it - and of course, it'll continue to age on your own shelf.

    Conversely, when I lived in France, I lived in the capital of wine producing region. At the wine festival, the new wines would come out and people could literally tell how long to suggest aging of wine before drinking it. They would taste it and know that it would be ready in two years, or better to wait 15 or 20 years Siri could be drunk at it's optimal point. I think this is true with a Oud oils, as well. Sometimes you can tell that a few years down the road...whoa!

    I think one of the greatest disservices some vendors have done is to lead people into thinking that we vendors distill every single oil we sell. For me - oils pre-dating 2012 are definitely going to not have been commissioned by me (as I started commissioning distillations in 2012). Most of those oils, however - are distilled by the people I distill with. So their DNA is already part of mine, so to speak.

    Other oils, like some of the oils I've sold from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are oils I've "picked up along the way". Some are acquired by collectors, others by trusted vendors I work with.

    The disservice I think that has been done to the community - is that every vendor does this. People have been led to believe by some vendors that they are not doing this. It's pretty obvious that not every oil being sold is distilled in-house. But I get enough messages and read enough on these message boards to get the feeling that people kind of understand this, but also are surprised to learn that not every oil sold by a vendor is distilled by them.

    I bring this point up again - because this bleeds into your question about oils being pre-aged.

    I also find it a little silly to compare one vendor to another on some oils, as an oil from one vendor may be more or less fresh, while another vendor is selling an oil distilled 12 or 15 or 20 years ago. They aren't a 1:1 comparison, The same way that comparing the newly vinted wine to a cellared wine - even from the same vineyard - makes not a good comparison.

    Hope that adds some clarity to your question about fresh and pre-aging oils
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  2. Ouddict

    Ouddict Technical Support

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    Some really valid and important points there JK... I have (almost) given up trying to explain the obvious to people who have just encountered Oud in the past 12 months and think they are experts after sampling a few oils . After all, what do you and I know? We only have a couple of decades experience between us. :Whistling:
     
  3. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

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    Very interresting points there JK.

    I share your point in giving details about distillation but clients ask for this because used with this kind of details used previously by some sellers as quality label. So I feel pressed to do so without giving too much details.

    Why not after all ? Maybe because you are right again, sometimes it's missleading.

    I start to see new wave of clients trying to explain details on distillation according to what they heard, more specificicaly about what they think having understand.


    Problem when you distill, you must give basic details without saying too much to not disclose what makes you unique and most of time, client is lost in translation.

    Thing is oud is pricey and people want to know what they are buying...

    So where to start and where to stop ?

    And where did you live exactly in France ?
     
  4. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    I spent my last year of University in Avignon (Capital of the Côte du Rhone Region) - and then moved to Paris to work with The University of Georgia to help open a new study abroad branch (spent several weeks in Prague with the program, as well). Was some great times - and a wonderful period of growth and self exploration in my life. I fell like I still to this day apply lessons I learned during that time spent living in a France.
     
    MzM and Mandeel AlMandeel like this.
  5. peter4ptv

    peter4ptv Member

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    Some people will do anything to justify their prices:

    Dead hunters, crushed legs, etc…………….

    And maggots for the barn lovers…….:Poop::Poop::Poop::Poop::Poop:

    can we have maggot emoji please:D

    "I wanted people to see what they are really putting on their skin when they use barnyard oils"
     
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  6. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Dearest Peter, I wish it were just justifying prices. I am sure it is not that much simple an issue. Almost all of us are always ready to buy oils that are fantastic, without giving prices a second thought.
    Important thing is 'to mar the best to exalt the average'. This is called 'ranks broken'. I just read about maggot-istic and distillation post. I remember a previous post about hygienic distillery fully sterilized to have Oud oil free from puerperal fever virus or some other disease. All for what? Not price, but to validate and establish the mediocre's supremacy.

    May the departed soul rest in peace, and may the injured one get well soon, and may we stay away from cashing all such woeful incidents. Such things are kept inside heart, not to be put on billboards.

    Don't you realize it is enjoyable? Yes, it is. The legends are to be worn carefully lest some maggots might get erupted again. After all those legends were distilled before this BRAND NEW REVELATION THAT MAGGOTS generate barn. Dearest Peter, there are 99 percent things that are to be enjoyed with loud roars of laughter, and not to be criticized.;)

    We have to tender a request to respectable Admin. If you want a 'live emoji', that video clip can be taken, if copy right maggot issue stays asleep.

    Leave it man!

    Today respected Tyson posted about the current scenario of Oud, and Nikhil has been writing for months. Dear Farid has said a lot. (May Farid be healthy as he is absent for many weeks).

    By the way, STOP ACTIVATING 'ALL':p!
     
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  7. peter4ptv

    peter4ptv Member

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    RIP all hunters who died in the jungles.

    Dear Rai, this are exactly my feelings also, such a tragedy needs to be shared only among closest people and relatives. But some people just try to capitalized on tragedies like that and show how rare oud is and people actually die in the process. If it was only one time I will say a mistake maybe, but……………………………..
     
    RisingPhoenix likes this.
  8. peter4ptv

    peter4ptv Member

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    i will quote Ammar just from a few days ago:
    <<<<<Those AA glorious past days are gone...>>>>>>>

    i think he was talking about pre-hygienic distillery fully sterilized distillations. the great maggot-istic distillations when the barn was barn, not barn without barn.
     
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  9. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    @peter4ptv
    Now I am thinking to post certain pics and discourses that how immensely painful things happened to me in ACQUIRING OUD oils :Roflmao::Roflmao::Roflmao:.

    I want to bring that into the notice of artisanal vintage-ists.

    O man, o man, leave it please.
     
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  10. peter4ptv

    peter4ptv Member

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    issues like this video and the theory that comes with it, makes me so sad that i don't even feel like using a emojis it is just not fun it is a tragedy.
     
    RisingPhoenix likes this.
  11. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    :Thumbsup:
    Well, I think none wants to. But, last time sterilized distillery issue was discussed, and it was not addressed keeping in view some particular person, but a thread started about Traditional and Modern Distillation. Anyway, it is not personal thing at all. But to speak for some age old time tested traditional art is everybody's prerogative. Otherwise, nothing to do with individuals, especially when unknown to one another.
     
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  12. Woodland Note

    Woodland Note Oud Fan

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    I believe prices are adequate to the product, reflecting demand and supply.

    Like with many other markets and things (but not all).

    Personally how I feel? I wish I could try oud oil but I can’t afford even samples. Ensar oud sample pack is above $400. Even single samples are everywhere over $20 if you add to this shipping cost $15-$25, you need to pay $40-50 to receive 0.2 gram of single oud oil that you might either like or not.

    I realize oud oil is something way more condensed than what you get with typical perfume bottles in shops, and it is in a way like an absolute, yet full-blown perfume designed by mother nature herself, but still... This is beyond poor mans reach.

    But let’s assume for a moment that I will put aside those money, and pay $50 for one sample of oil.

    What if I won’t be happy with it? I cannot go to any shop and see for myself how it is. (At least not here, in Central Europe) For perfumes there are tester bottles in larger shops. I can put a bit on my skin for free and test if it’s something I like or not. I can’t do the same with agarwood oil. And perhaps I would like another one oil. They are not all the same, right? Indian agarwoods have animalic notes, Malaysian floral and fruity, some other green and earthy etc. etc. It would be a shame to try it this way, get disappointed and never come back again to try more.


    So, maybe the prices are justified, but maybe sellers should prepare smaller samples for new clients and don’t charge more for it than they do with a full package.


    But if you ask if $300 is ok for 3gram bottle. Well if it’s like 3 large bottles of a EDC perfume (I read somewhere such comparison.) and it’s really good then I guess that price is justified. All in all it’s a luxury good, not a survival necessity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  13. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan

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    @Woodland Note the prices were alot higher a year ago and more healthy competition and consumer knowledge have helped lower prices. Oud being on the decline it will in time only go up and up so people should make the most of it while it lasts. I would say there will always be a supply but slowley but surely prices will increase, especially for the high quality woods and oils. Drop me a PM im happy to send you a few small samples to try if shipping can be covered.
     
  14. Oudamberlove

    Oudamberlove Member

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    D&S, or S&D indeed:Thumbsup:
    What influences the oil market is the wood market, and since the latter is strong, hunters will charge more and oil prices will eventually rise.

    But in this case...oil is sold by 2.5 grams
    ...not by the barrel :Roflmao::Roflmao::Roflmao::Roflmao:
     
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  15. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

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    This is why I do .15gr + 11 $ shipping ...
     
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  16. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Those who have experienced '2017 Oud-price Syndrome', they know it very well that now Oud oil is being offered free of cost. "Make Oud Cheap Again' had been a farce a year back. Now it is a reality. No body could imagine that some oil will be below $200 (2.5/3 g). Now, each month such oils are being launched, and if description is read, and then compared carefully, that will compete some oils cost $2000. Language is so waxy. One can turn it as per situation.
    The Forum has played a vital role in lowering the prices. With due apologize, the Forum/s played a vital role in price hike. This is customers that shape the market. If members are not mouth-pieces, things would glide smoothly. Bravery and democratic wearers would rejuvenate the scenario. Vendors are highly respectable and lovable. But the nucleus of the Oud Market is 'wearer'.

    Now certain new vendors have widened the horizons, and made the scene transparent. If it were 2017, Oud Aalamin would have been tagged $ 1599-2499. This 99 I couldn't understand ever. None ever talked about vendor-ing, pricing, and marketing and behaviour towards wearers in 2017. Ultimately, the customers were shy, or skin savers. No more now. Of course, the minutest effect is 'less price'.

    The market could be more open, but all depends upon the wearers/ members. Once, the buyers were destined to praise everything. Otherwise, made history. Now it is near to impossible. Now just two ways out: offering in private or making oils legend and re-offering in private.

    The most important change is some Oud veterans have entered the market as vendors. They themselves had experienced all murky scenes. So, they talk transparent. They offer transparent. They price transparent. Al Hashmi, Tyson, Habzoud. Thanks to them. If I, the wearer, behaves like a wearer, not as a preacher of vendor, the situation would remain conducive and competitive.

    Peace and cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    waq, Nicolas, KHH and 7 others like this.
  17. peter4ptv

    peter4ptv Member

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    Right on, amazing what ouddict.com has done only in 2 short years.
    Remembering the basenotes oud forum times when I was reading and trying to find oud sources other than the only 2 available online (with projections of no more wild oud available by 2017 and expectation prices to skyrocket with suggestions better to invest in wild oud for your retirement fund). Many times oud was thrown in the garbage when sourcing from places like Ham Firl qt-store.
    Now thanks to ouddict community people who love oud can safely try many different types of good quality wild ouds from the ouddict vendors for prices a lot less than 2012. Even some as good as a high grade old legends from what I have seen some reviewers are comparing products from @Habz786
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    waq, Arsalan, Habz786 and 2 others like this.
  18. Rasoul Salehi

    Rasoul Salehi Oud Fanatic

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    it is remarkable to get so much new oud at such affordable prices. kuzen/kanzen give people 80% of agar aura's siganture at half price or less of his royal and special k oils. imperial oud imperial naga is a steal. people ceylon, people’s sultan, etc. all provide a huge quality price ratio. but let me play devil's advocate. i have not seen any changes in the upper echelon oils and these aformentioned oils none come even remotely close to the likes of the legends and grand oils some of us have been fortunate to try and be moved by. Oils like royal malinau, Kyara Ltd, port moresbey are religious experiences.

    hindustan 1 price? shah jahan price? sultan oils from ensar or senkoh/naya oils? ltds.? none show any changes to pricing from 2017 or before the end of oud (not end of all Oud but end of the likes that used to be more readily available) started.

    who wouldnt want to have access to ASO lamah, malek malezie, purple kinam, kyara ltd. pusong ltd., taha new laos royal at lower prices? but i dont see oils like that offered sub $1000 and doubt i ever will.

    i personally rather wear a dot, or wear an oil once a week, but something truly mesmerizing and spectacular rather than good to very good swipes multi times a day.

    to each their own. no right. no wrong. i just dont see the reason for all the celebration. the day the likes of oud ahmad, twr, ceen, rubaie are made and their prices remain the same is a good day for me.

    peace
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  19. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Dearest Rasoul, much balanced post.:praying:

    No doubt, still certain oils are above $1500. And they deserve to be, TO SOME EXTENT. But, majority of oils are just offered in private. Second, no more sentences that it is a steal even on this price as I have infused my blood for 'you- the wearers'. No more trap of investment and the religion coated legacy for the successors. Change is evident. Just imagine the price of Oud Komrade. Oud of the people, by the people, and for the people. People's Ceylon. And 3 in 1 pack for $300. For people. Now dragging scale to 3 to 2.5. Change. No more hypnotic measures that hurry, hurry, lest you should miss it. Tamed!

    Of course, last year there were I think just 200 members, now 500. More views. Open discussion. Change is there. Muana is a reality in private, but a fiction for 99 % of the market. Change. Once a Borneo was $2500. And now, top class Borneos are into the very sphere of everybody. If impartially examined the aroma, some nuances will definitely be missing in high price oils. And the most important thing, no more hollow praising o man o man what an oil. Once shy, now confident. Open market now.

    It is just the beginning. Oud Stock Market has now a lot of share holders, thus aroma hegemony has declined drastically. Legends are not offered on websites, but in e-mails.

    And the best is yet to come.

    Peace, peace, peace!
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  20. Woodland Note

    Woodland Note Oud Fan

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    Thank you Habz for your generous kind offer! : ) It's accepted. : )
    I was also promised some free samples by Nadeem (Ouddict).
    I can’t wait to try (smell) real oud! Once I receive them I will take my time to familiarize myself with those scenets, and then I will try to write extensive reviews. Though it won’t be anything like regular oud users reviews, because I’m European and total oud newbie. I have no experience to make comparisons like many people here do. So, I will use my own words and knowledge about scents to describe what I smell. But I am very optimistic it will be great and interesting experience. :Thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018

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