Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Aug 3, 2016.
Hmmm, it makes sense now about the sudden collapse of BN oud forum!
Excellent post Ammar
If you see the crux of the matter is we all love the Vendors out there and I really do think that we have to support there business but the issue is with the prices only. Distillers who are selling at cheap prices (I mean at par products) rings the bell here and we do understand that distiller cost for running business and the cost of living is much lower than the artisans here. We understand that and are willing to pay the premium to artisans, but question is how much?Although I've never bought from the distillers directly yet but any person who regularly read the forums can form this opinion that somewhere outside the online oud world, good quality products are available at more reasonable rates.
One more thing I've noticed is that we consumers are not providing real data to vendors as well... and I think time has come that we look to resolve the issue rather than beating the same bush again and again.
I am sort of comfortable saying that there is a very high chance that Vendors do not test each other products before coming up with their own pricing of a similar category product. Neither forums are providing data to them of a similar category product... whenever someone tries to raise the voice he/she is put down with tecnical bombardment. Also if you see there will be a lot of members out there who are not as technical as others are, that may cause some of them not to raise any voice. We actually need to come up with some mechanism to provide vital data to the businesses out there and I think polling is one of the best way to do it as I suggested earlier that under each profile category we need to list the products and the ask consumers to rate the product for different features and cast their opinion about product pricing vs quality without having a fear of retaliation.
We have thrashed vendors too much now... sometime correctly and sometime without knowingly. We need to be constructive here rather than going into circles that we are doing for a long time.
Lol, I'm not buying them! But otoh I'm also not offended by their existence... I have never experienced an oud oil commanding those prices so I have no comment on their possible merits vs less expensive oils. If anyone wants to send me some $1000/g oil I will certainly share my views though!
I do think it's unfortunate that oud sells for what it does, but it is what it is... I'd also like to buy a Ferrari for 1/10th what they cost these days but no auto manufacturer has stepped up to the plate to provide an alternative at those prices, and wishing things were different is never going to make one happy.
Wow, I did not know there were legal threats involved. That's too bad, but congrats for ignoring it as I can't see any basis for it either. If there was all forums would be in trouble! I am surprised Grant/BN would take such a threat seriously. Forums are never responsible for the content posted by users afaik.
I totally agree with your last two sentences! IMO... (flame suit on!) some with no taste have been overly critical. Just like wine, coffee, audio quality, etc... some are much more discerning than others and we don't all have equally sharp or trained senses. Actual human beings who own small businesses and are following their passion have been attacked in disgusting ways with no empathy. I certainly hope this can or has changed and people can express themselves more constructively or appropriately.
@Dorje the Nissan GTR did exactly what you said maybe not at 1/10th of the price but its amazing bang for the buck. If its happend to Ferrari it will most likely happen and is happening in the Oud world
Hahaha wallah when I read @Dorje's comment I directly thought of Nissan GTR
Love that car BTW
Some people would have a really hard time equating a GT-R with a Ferrari because of many different factors... it's not necessarily the performance specs, it's what it FEELS like to drive a Ferrari that the GT-R, as great as it is, cannot replicate. Is it worth it to spend 3x as much on a Ferrari? Well, that's a personal decision that one must decide for themselves, but it's not fair to bash Ferrari for being way too expensive based on the mere existence of the GT-R. I don't know too many that would choose the GT-R if they can afford a Ferrari...
Personally, I drive a Subaru STi as it fits my budget better than a GT-R. I'm not rich by any means!
Also, I would pick a Corvette as an example of a good "budget" sports car, the GT-R is a bit bland imo.
@Dorje I agree with what you're saying as far as the whining, I wanted to say something similar in my last post but decided to refrain from being so blunt.
@Ammar I did want to evoke another thought process which was to show that there are viable alternatives. It seems like much of the focus is on those thousand and two thousand dollar oils and people feeling like they are overpriced or if the vendor is trying to somehow get over on them. Overpriced compared to what? If it's to other competing products, why focus on those more expensive products when there is a world of oils that cost a 1/10 or 1/20 of their price; buy those less expensive oils and move on. As @Dorje suggest focusing on those thousand and two thousand dollar oils and stating that they're overpriced is whining. It's not a prerequisite that we buy any of them.
Another important thing as @Al Shareef Oudh suggest, there are classes of oils ranging from everyday to ultra luxury oils. IMO people are whining because those ultra luxury, heirloom oils are not priced as everyday oils. Furthermore, there will be some that don't think those thousand and two thousand dollar oils are 10-20 times better than there less expensive counterparts; again, there is no need to whine, buy and support the less expensive oils. There are 30 currently available oils ranging in price from $70-300, if those are considered overpriced than I think we need to alter our expectations of what pure oud oils cost.
You are assuming in behave of @Dorje, there is no mention he is specifically referring to this price range type of oud "I have never experienced an oud oil commanding those prices so I have no comment on their possible merits vs less expensive oils.". Otherwise, I simply agree, but again there were few insightful questions not seems that whiny (although several were whiny) put on the table at one time when I was defending these oils like why an oil with high percentage of sinking grade wood sold in the range $700-800 while other high end oil incense-grade non-sinking sold for $2500? I answered but to be honest not sure if my response covers all the truth as the others also responded in objective way.
Regarding why “the people are whining because those ultra luxury, heirloom oils are not priced as everyday oils” again you are assuming in behave of the buyers, there is no proof this is the reason. I doubt anyone sane want these high end oils to be priced as everyday oils, it simply would not happened.
Regarding “There are 30 currently available oils ranging in price from $70-300, if those are considered overpriced than I think we need to alter our expectations of what pure oud oils cost.” I totally agree.
All this talk about Oud in the 1000'$ range has got me in the mood to sleep with this tonight
GT-R all day long... Ferrari is for pretentious individuals.
@Ammar It's just my opinion, as stated, and how I comprehended the entire conversation based on implication(the conclusion that can be drawn from something, although it is not explicitly stated) and inference(the conclusion reached on the basis of reasoning). No harm, no foul.
Aren’t we all here with the same tools? The best possible approach we have...Although IMO the conclusion that the overall buyers are unreasonably whining is almost takes the same turn as the conclusion by the buyers that oud are overall unreasonably priced.
There are always few people who are whining and would not be satisfied even if you provide to them the highest oil for the cheapest price. These people are annoying but easily controllable when the atmosphere shows reasonable discussion in civilized manner without generalized over judgement.
“the people are whining because those ultra luxury, heirloom oils are not priced as everyday oils”
Yes - I think this is not a reasonable assumption to make. This is a straw-man argument I think.
I don't see what the problem is though with the pricey oils. No big deal. Whether some / any / all of these are worth it or not is ultimately not a question that can be answered definitively for all oils. I personally don't mind hearing diverse perspectives on pricing and the marketing game. I am certain there are many reasonably priced truly amazing gems and many over-hyped and overpriced oils. If not for forums like this no one would have a chance to sort them out...
I love hearing diverse discourse and welcome all opinions. But, then I look at the market; I see 30 oils priced $70-300, I see boards like this and conversation fostering some recent exceptional deals(as I've always seen), I see a marketplace with new vendors supplying lower priced oils compared to others and then I ask, why do some still maintain that oils are way overpriced? ONE of the viable/possible conclusions that I came to was my statement you quoted above. A reason why some focus on oils they think are overpriced when there are alternatives.
Just as we both agree with hearing diverse perspectives, I enjoy a marketplace with diverse product and pricing range. There's something out there for nearly everybody and nearly every budget, yet some are still saying oils are way overpriced. I don't want to make assumptions so I'll ask, what oils in what price range are overpriced and why? Is it that they are overpriced or is it that they are beyond that persons budget or just more than they are willing to pay.
In a free market with knowledgeable consumers and diverse array of vendors, an overpriced vendor would price themselves out of the market or adjust their prices to reflect parity and I don't see that happening. In addition, no vendor has a monopoly or dictatorship where they solely dictate market price on a take it or leave it kind of basis.
Maybe they just want to owe and enjoy these precious gems which is their right. Maybe they don’t want these pricy ultra luxury oils to be as the same price as the daily wearing oils, rather than a price range of $1000-1500 for example instead of $2500 assuming it’s possible. There is huge difference between the two prices although it’s still in +$1000 range which also considers high but the buyer maybe willing to pay happily within this range; example Kinam Rouge which I’ve never seen any mention anywhere to be overpriced.
Just a thought…
ohhhh skyline so popular here in kuwait specially the classics one 77 model and 90's ...
Iam thinking this pricey oils was always here...just we dont know of them because it was reserve for prince/king and ultra rich people...internet just show this oils to the crown.
For me buying an expensive oil is simply a question of priority.
Iam in the watch business and I remember a client told me...wathever I drive a $500 car...I drive it with my $10000 Rolex on the wrist.
Let's be serious Do you really think a prince will pay $2500 his 3g bottle even if he can easily afford it?
Why the queen bought her tigerwood Royale directly from the distiller? I am not complaining about tigerwood Royale price but only a question...
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