Discussion in 'General' started by Louis Miller, Aug 12, 2018.
Prophetic medicine Oud
Rai Sahib this is for you. The king of perfumes. Musk!
Thank you, dear Sarfraz.
jazak’Allah for sharing this
I will just add one more thing. To get an absolute correct answer you would need to speak to a Hadith scholar or read books written by muhaditheen.
The Oud mentioned is Indian. In the book there are plenty of things listed such as food, herbs and natural products, sometimes with the same thing from a different region having superiority in terms of beneficial factors.
The closest analogy I could draw and it may seem absurd to most is that one can say mangoes are the best type of fruit in the world. However as a general statement that is absolutely wrong simply because not all mangoes taste the same. But when you say an Indian Alphonso Mango is the best fruit in the world, or the king of all fruits that to most is a correct statement to make. The same perhaps could be said of Oud. Hindi is best or was the best before the rest of the world consumed it all.
Even in musk the same could be said. Kashmiri, Nepal or IndoPak musk is head and shoulders above the rest. Siberian has no status compared to Kashmiri.
Allah knows best.
So don’t fall into the trap when ensar or someone calls an oud an Islamic name thinking buying that product is somehow getting you closer to the religion, nor fall into the category of getting so deep in oud that you cannot see the wood from the trees.
Ibn Qayyims book is a masterpiece and is respected amongst Muslims and non Muslims alike. No sect of Muslims have dismissed this book and all swear by it. If he or the Prophet have said perfumes help with health then don’t let anyone tell you only Oud does this. It’s a tactic for sales. Yes people will hate me for saying this. But the proof is in the text and it’s not me saying it.
I agree with the above.
I don't agree that the purpose of naming an oil an Islamic name is to convey that one who uses it will get closer to Islam. However, I have seen the use of Islam, Hadith, and reports in marketing blurbs such as, Umar, Radi Allahu anhu, "whoever spends a third of his wealth on itr is not being extravagant". I agree that things like that in marketing may be somewhat crude and misleading, as it doesn't speak of moderation in Islam nor priority, some may spend 1/3 or more on itr, Oud, etc. and it would be nothing, some have incomes that make itr, Oud, etc. truly a luxury item. Is the onus on the vendor or consumer?
While salesmen will use all sorts of tactics for sales, there's no robbery in fair exchange. It does seem that in this world people are prone to blame others for their own actions.
I haven't seen anyone state that only Oud has health benefits, a look into other essential oils and aromatherapy would quickly negate that statement.
When you look at Ensars ouds you get a notion that you are traveling a journey with him, so every aspect of that journey resonates something with you (end user). The name of the Oud (for me) is what translates the journey into a product.
This is what is written for oud kaabah...
Kings and paupers alike have perfumed the cloth of the Kaabah through centuries. And here is the scent that I would like to dedicate to the glorious Haram in Mecca.
As a Muslim or even non Muslim, if you read that above, the most sacred land for Muslims all over the world, the non Muslims also know that the Kaaba has immense meaning for Muslims. Your mindset automatically screams, the greatest place deserves the greatest oud...
I don’t blame him (ok secretly I do and I think this marketing technique stinks), but I get that it’s marketing blurb. And when Oud Kaaba comes delivered and it’s a standard Trat and your left wondering what the heck just happened.
LOL. This guy you speak of must be oud superman. Faster than steam distillation! More powerful than the barniest Hindi! Able to leap tall German pyrex bottles in a single bound! Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, no it's Oud Superman!!!
In the other thread, you had those who preferred not using the swiper because of this guy's hype(totally disregarding that's it's theirs to do as they please), in response to Jensz, as seen here...
Now you have the guy leading or misleading people to Islam, with Oud blurb, what's the obsession with the guy?
Don't you know that many oils from other vendors are named Arabic, the language of Al Qur'an, names. Every vendor blurb is intended to take you into the journey or minds eye of the vendor/distiller, and many if not all of the popular vendors here, are indeed Muslim. The use of Oud and Itr is deeply ingrained in Islam, primarily due to report and Hadith of the Prophet's, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam, use of them. So is it OK for other vendors to use Arabic/Islamic names, or just not Oud Superman?
P.S. I don't expect any of what I've written to make sense to you or for you to have any logical feedback, but try anyway.
Here we go again. The obsession isn’t with him. I think you guys can carry the can for that. Perhaps you need to read not so selectively and see how many criticisms of Ensar exist with prominent board members.
One resonating theme in all my posts is this. Oud is just a perfume. And I don’t believe or rather I dislike the hype that is given to it. By calling Oud certain names which hold a very high esteem in the minds of readers it simply adds to the hype.
Even if you say it’s a perfume, do you see Oud in the same category as bottles you can pick up at the department stores?
Hype is a good thing and it is totally justified when talk of a certain type of Oud is out or about to be released.
The question arises is Oud affordable for many? The answer to that question is only known to someone who is in this passion or not. Some vendors sell oils for something out of the norm and that is totally up to them. Yes that hype, which comes with those oils and are several of thousands of dollars could be questioned and talked about.
Several years ago, when I got into Oud, there was a wow and ufff factor when experiencing oils and having connected with them (even though I could say many at that time were probably synthetic based). Fast forward to this era and time, many people don’t have the realization and respect of what Oud demands.
My own experiences.
I once sent a few of my own samples to a very very well known oud distiller who has a equally large following online to test and provide feedback.
I knew what my samples cost me and the purity that goes along with it.
A sample he reviewed as pure aged Assam and was extremely well received. Little did he know that it cost peanuts compared to the price of oud he charged. £50 or £60 to be specific. Only difference was I purchased from the people who distill it.
Today I was browsing another well known distillers site and he had a Qadeem up for about £300, just by reading his description and the Qadeem name I knew exactly what he was referring to. The equivalent non hyped product costs £50-£60. He described Qadeem as first grade and then a lower grade Qadeem. My distiller contact sells it exactly like that.
I sent another expert a £25 3ml pure rose and he thought it’s was the closest match to the Taif rose he was selling for £130-£150. My rose is 100% pure.
Now you know why I dislike the hype.
Oud is just Oud.
I've seen criticisms by members, but what I have yet to see is someone say, "I overspent, my fault", or "I fell for Oud as an investment without doing any proper study and research of the market, my fault", or "I fell for marketing blurb, my fault".
It's at your discretion that you dislike hype.
I wonder why you'd read and gripe about marketing blurb for Oud Al Kaaba when you have access to very well known distiller approved oils, that you get for peanuts and come without hype. The hype phenomenon is one that does not reach you and you have no reason to seek it out other than to gripe about it.
You may not realize and will likely never admit it, but you just hyped the oils you mentioned. The first you hyped by telling us that you sent them to a "very very well known oud distiller who has an equally large following online" (did you send them to Dr. Spock or Captain Kirk?) and what he said about the oil, as if that is to convince us of it's validity. The second you hyped by saying your distiller contact sells £50-60 oils to you that compare to ones being sold for £300. Lastly, an "expert" (what expert, Selena Gomez or Iggy Azalea) said your 100% pure £25/3ml rose is the closest match to Taifi selling for £130-150. If that's not hype, I don't know what is.
Musk in it's raw form stinks too bro. Also not all oud stinks...maybe lower grade Oud. If you ever have the chance to attend a majlis of an Arab from the gulf,a well off one especially you will smell oud unlike you have smelled before and no stink attached to that oud.
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I actually have Oud Kaaba and can prove it, I have 5 full bottles of EO Oud, one of which you may never have heard of, it cost $2500 for 3ml, is it worth it? Simple answer no. And I’ve smelt at least 10 more other EO products and had the opportunity to apply each of them. That’s not hype it’s fact.
It’s not hyping what I own, im showing people the other side, I’m showing the general people like me how not to get stung or fall into the hyperbole. You hype boys can’t tell the difference between a £25 product and a £125. Or an Oud which costs £50 against a £300, that’s amusing.
My conclusion is simple, Oud’s not that expensive, it’s been made expensive by people like you who accept the status quo. And by some people selling online who write any ol’ nonsense to increase sales and making sure the bubble doesn’t burst. If the bubble burst it would affect you first, what you paid is now only worth a fraction of what you thought it was worth. Try doing some research and speak to all the guys who thought it was an investment and ploughed serious money into buying and stock piling, see how happy they are. Guess what, Oud was supposed to run out by now according to your hype boys thesis. I don’t see that happening... look further, take a glance in the marketplace, Oud is currently selling cheaper than what people purchased. Yeah you carry on dreaming pal.
Ensar has a new motto, make Oud cheap again. I for one pray that he does that, in fact I know he will. Look ahead to cheaper times boys. If ensar drops price, everyone will.
You should mind your language sir. You obviously don't know who you are messing with. @PEARL's contribution to the Oud world has been eye opening for alot of us. You are saying, he might not heard of a $2500 oil. I am certain of it, he has heard of it and knows many oils which you probably have never heard of.
You are trying to rekindle something which alot of people have understood before you. Please search the forums about this topic. The people are aware of whats happening in the Oud market. Why try to start something all over again?
To call a respected member retarded then go on to say you spent $2500 on a bottle of oud that you think is not worth the price...…
I believe you are on the wrong end of that insult.
I see common sense is not your strong suit. First, you say this...
Then you say this...
I get it now, you are one who fell for the Oud Kaaba marketing blurb and secretly you do blame him (well not a secret anymore). Then you've told me about all of your contacts with "no hype" priced oils, then brag and tell me you have 5 full bottles from another vendor you say hypes oils; did you pay the hype price or the "no hype" price for them? Nevermind answering, I already know.
Then, with all of the oils you have access to that cost peanuts and with your keen ability to tell a £50 from a £300 oil (you say the hype boys can't tell the difference) you admit to buying a $2500 oil, that you further admit isn't worth it. Did you at least get a sample of the $2500 oil before buying or was it a case of a good story, marketing and "a fool and his money, soon parted" type deal? Don't answer, I already know. It seems to me that you fell hard and now you secretly (well not anymore) blame that vendor.
My dear, you are absolutely brilliant.
Respected Sarfraz, it is WE who are not just faulty, but guilty as well, not vendors. And I think there's no need to name any vendor. Exceptions are there and those exceptions are worth-loving.
This very topic 'pricing' has already been discussed a lot. Believe me, it is all the clash between the views developed due to different frames of reference. Never mind, your view-point is uni-dimensional, and respected PEARL's is three-dimensional. The fourth dimensional is yet being awaited.
Never mind please, why we think that vendors must be altruists and sufis? And they should not be 'every inch vendors'? I have always been saying Oud is over priced; I have always been saying profiteering is more nasty, stinky and uglier than usury. I have always been saying tactics are always there, even religions are used for financial gain. But who dares to pin point that such a sacred Oud is being shipped by printing a big big lie about the price and what is inside on the box? Are vendors guilty? No. Only 'ME". You know, over pricing CAN be justified, but what I said about shipments CANNOT be. Yet "Brutus-I- is an honorable man'. How difficult it is to be 'the man'. I am ready to justify my corruption for the sake of a few pleasant puffs. Any way.
We can discuss and debate every thing with calm and quiet nerves. This is the way to share. Otherwise, difference would change into clash, and clash into name and blame. Respected PEARL lost his temper once in almost two years. Sorry, Sir. But I love those three days as well the way I love 'Three Days to See".
Everything is visible to everybody. None is without eyes, and none is without intelligence. But priorities differ man to man. I know Oud is overpriced, yet I buy. I don't buy from EO because of certain other reasons, not because of price. Priorities and preferences. Dearest Sarfraz, if you are sure that it is intolerable for you, my humble suggestion is opt no more buying from these vendors. But it doesn't mean to stop posting. You are equally respectable to me the way other members are.
Peace and cheers!
Dear Sarfraz. Don't quote the Prophet and then attempt to insult one of our dear members in the same discussion thread. Lol. C'mon man.
Separate names with a comma.