Azaad

Oud Fanatic
I see common sense is not your strong suit. First, you say this...

Then you say this...

I get it now, you are one who fell for the Oud Kaaba marketing blurb and secretly you do blame him (well not a secret anymore). Then you've told me about all of your contacts with "no hype" priced oils, then brag and tell me you have 5 full bottles from another vendor you say hypes oils; did you pay the hype price or the "no hype" price for them? Nevermind answering, I already know.

Then, with all of the oils you have access to that cost peanuts and with your keen ability to tell a £50 from a £300 oil (you say the hype boys can't tell the difference) you admit to buying a $2500 oil, that you further admit isn't worth it. Did you at least get a sample of the $2500 oil before buying or was it a case of a good story, marketing and "a fool and his money, soon parted" type deal? Don't answer, I already know. It seems to me that you fell hard and now you secretly (well not anymore) blame that vendor.

My dear, you are absolutely brilliant.
It’s a tongue in cheek comment about I secretly do. I live in the UK, there is nothing wrong with what I wrote if understood in the correct context.
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
To call a respected member retarded then go on to say you spent $2500 on a bottle of oud that you think is not worth the price...…
I believe you are on the wrong end of that insult.

Sorry I just got here... who called who retarded? That kind of language is completely unacceptable on this forum. Can someone PM me so I can have a word with the individual. I cannot see it on any post.
 

peter4ptv

Member
Re: $2500 - precisely why I’m trying to educate the people who don’t know. Spending $2500 is absurd and if I could justify it I would. In keeping with the spirit of the board I should say one whiff and you reached the skies. But it’s not like that.

for me to pay $2500 I got to get a lot more than just reaching the skies:Roflmao::Roflmao:
well everyone is different, some paid $10,000 and I am sure he has not reach the skies yet:D
 

Rasoul Salehi

True Ouddict
Re: $2500 - precisely why I’m trying to educate the people who don’t know. Spending $2500 is absurd and if I could justify it I would. In keeping with the spirit of the board I should say one whiff and you reached the skies. But it’s not like that.

sincere question without any intention of stirring the pot. i really am being genuine here @Sarfraz
have you tried the likes of nha trang ltd., kyara ltd., oud ahmad, sultan ahmet, purple kinam? if so i like to think that you saw the distinct and superior quality to all of these oils. you may have not like them all but one can not like something yet understand its superior quality.

if you can DM me with any oil that you feel can go head to head or even belong in the same level of the above mentioned oils, i would be thankful and very grateful. i have searched the oud world from arab connections or japanese/chinese connections. singapore market to Gulf market. online, offline and i have not seen comparable oils like the above. i have not tried respected ASO kinam oil or the malik asiya, i am sure they would be great, but they too are in or above the price point of oils mentioned above.
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
Dearest @Rai Munir I’ve been involved in many a heated discussion, so I can not presume to know exactly which you refer. Rest assured though, that in each there was no activation or loss of temper, it’s a nonessential but fun Internet forum, I can’t and don’t take it that seriously. In each case, disappointment was there, however mild. Disappointment that I gave the benefit of the doubt in assigning intelligence and the faculty of perception to some to know that I’m not a puppet or spokesman and have my own mind.

As salaamu alaykum and welcome to the forum @Sarfraz, it's obvious and by your own admission, you’ve been “stung” and want to let the world know, but when nearly every conversation leads to your “secret blame” it gets old, quick. While it has not happened to me, I do empathize and don’t mean to make light of it happening to anyone else. I’ve seen it mentioned enough long ago, and most have, to know that where there’s smoke there’s also fire or at least something burning, so I don’t doubt it’s existence. When transaction goes awry there should be outrospection and introspection, not just blame.

To see me as respected member, I am in like company, all are included.
Respected PEARL, you are the pearl. No doubt. I might have mis-judged the posts that I referred to. Anyway. I apologize for that. But, to be plain and to be honest, I never took the Forum as a fun Forum. Though I enjoy it a lot.

Cheers
 

Woodland Note

True Ouddict
Lots of rough discussion here about pricing, investments, business, hypes, who is right, who is wrong... and it wasn’t even the original subject of the thread...

Why can’t we just enjoy this fragrant gift of nature that is oud.
Fragrances are like a spice for a meal called life. Let’s just enjoy it in peace... And for me a good meal that I can share with a friend who can appreciate its flavors is twice as delicious as consumed alone.
 

peter4ptv

Member
Lots of rough discussion here about pricing, investments, business, hypes, who is right, who is wrong... and it wasn’t even the original subject of the thread...

Why can’t we just enjoy this fragrant gift of nature that is oud.
Fragrances are like a spice for a meal called life. Let’s just enjoy it in peace... And for me a good meal that I can share with a friend who can appreciate its flavors is twice as delicious as consumed alone.

I am not surprised about rough discussions like this, they are on and off since the first oud forum on basenotes was created around 2008.
Oud is a gift of nature, but there is many people who has spend tens of thousands on oud and at some point they realize somethings they don't like and will talk about, it was not a gift to them but a hard earned money. This rough discussions are more about the business tactics, than the oud itself.
Even some oils are nothing short of a gift, with $550.00 mark.....;)
 

Grega

True Ouddict
Lots of rough discussion here about pricing, investments, business, hypes, who is right, who is wrong... and it wasn’t even the original subject of the thread...

Why can’t we just enjoy this fragrant gift of nature that is oud.
Fragrances are like a spice for a meal called life. Let’s just enjoy it in peace... And for me a good meal that I can share with a friend who can appreciate its flavors is twice as delicious as consumed alone.
I agree completely. There is a tendency in society towards conflict, especially in these times I notice that the reactive subconscious drive seeking conflict is extremely strong. This is why I don't hold it against someone who looses his temper as god knows I do the same. It is hard to resist this urge of having power over someone else, to come on top (in a debate or anywhere else) but when we give in we loose the power over ourselves. This is more important than any question of right or wrong, truth or falsehood for the only way to have any real power over yourself is by loving your neighbour. Each person has their own experiences but I see this forum as an attempt at building brotherhood and sisterhood through a common love of the art of fragrances that we here share. This is why I feel that we should put our grievances by the side, at least emotionally, to let the spirit of brotherhood guide these debates even if we are on opposite sides. For no creation of man is more important than man himself. Frankly I appreciate the vibrant characters I met here as much as the oils that I found by reading this forum. And like Woodland said, it is always better to appreciate the fine things in life with company.
Now I will stop moralising o_O
 

Rasoul Salehi

True Ouddict
And on that note let’s get back on track.

I wondered and still wonder if certain sesquiterpenes in Oud have a universal effect on all wearers or no.

Linalool the compound in lavender for example is said to be calming. Sedative. Sleep inducing. Limonine is sobering energizing and exciting. Humiline and Myrcene are even stronger sedatives and give one feeling of bubble head.

Oud has not one or two but dozens and dozens of these compounds that literally go to ones head. For sure certain species and distilling techniques have an effect on concentration level of each of these terpenes. In other words there should be in my opinion and based on above, a certain given strong feeling or effect on all of us when let’s say we swipe a steam distilled walla patta or low temp distilled sinesis/crassna. Except I haven’t been able to establish one yet.

Ayu, purple kinam, sultan suleiman and the malay oil from IO (I forget the name) are all strong on malay (northern? Beccariana? Makecensis?) and all leave me focused, energized and giddy! But I know gentlemen who wear these oils late in the evening in prep for bedtime. Is their nightcap so yo speak. What’s up?

Cafeine is believed to be an upper and I for one can’t sleep at night if I drink one even late afternoon. Yet I know people that need their coffee after a meal and sleep just fine. My own grandpa even says he needs it for a good night sleep. What the heck is going on?
 

Rasoul Salehi

True Ouddict
I wonder if any possible psychoactive effect, other than being moved by sheer enjoyment of the unique and beautiful fragrance of agarwood oil, can be attributed to placebo effect and/or what we as the user project onto the oil.
could very well be the case with some or even slightly true even in my own case. this i dont think applied to me in the begining of my journey as i was fully unaware of oud's "other abilities" other than simply being a fragrance when i started. i didnt know of the existence of forums or such. all i knew what when i would put surirankah senkoh on i would get a rush of energy to go and do high intensity sports. i would wear vietnamese oils and despite being well rested would have a sudden urge to take a nap.

i am also super body/emotion aware. there is something to oud even at low concentrations.
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
I've seen some mention that they use agarwood oil and smoke in more esoteric manner in helping to center and concentrate when engaged in such things as yoga and meditation. From the perspective as a Muslim, if agarwood oil and smoke are used in that same manner to center and concentrate on rememberance of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala or performing Salat, that would be bid'ah and therefore haram. It would also possibly draw attention away from Allah and Salat, haram.
In the absence of these 'if' and 'possibly', will the situation be different? I think mostly the situation is different. Anyway. The definition of 'bida'h' as per the highly respectable Jurists flashed into my mind, and I think the word 'bida'h' cannot be applied even 'if' and 'possibly' are present.

Qust and Oud surely are two separate ingredients in Tibb e Yunani and in Ayurveda.

Here's a quick outline of what it would take to prove agarwood had any medical affect on a specific disorder from a medical/pharmaceutical perspective. http://www.fdareview.org/03_drug_development.php
Thanks for sharing the link, Sir.
 

Fahad

True Ouddict
This last turn the thread has taken though woefully off topic is yet a most important one for Muslims so happy to purse it : ) Apologies to Louis : S
I personally am most unfit to call anything an innovation or forbidden but saw a distinction made in the posts above which I thought useful to highlight for clarification - that between the intention of wearing Oud during prayer, how the wearer uses it and it's actual effect.

@Rai Munir
I've seen some mention that they use agarwood oil and smoke in more esoteric manner in helping to center and concentrate when engaged in such things as yoga and meditation. From the perspective as a Muslim, if agarwood oil and smoke are used in that same manner to center and concentrate on rememberance of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala or performing Salat, that would be bid'ah and therefore haram. It could also possibly draw attention away from Allah and Salat, which should be avoided.

I agree, hence the usage.

I disagree, allow me to elaborate based on my understanding of bid'ah (innovation away from that which is in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sunnah). Hadith tells us that the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, adored and wore fragrance, that is Sunnah and permissible during performance of Salat. If denotes situational condition, if someone concentrates and occupies the heart on fragrance in hopes of it helping to center focus during prayer, as some do to center focus during yoga/meditation, that is innovation away from Qur'an, Hadith, and the practice of Rasoulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam; bid'ah.

Itr/Oud could possibly avert someone's attention away from prayer during its performance. Ibn ‘Abbas, radi allahu anhu, said, "You will not be rewarded on your prayer except for what you had been attentive to". Diversion of attention away from prayer as being haram is not correct by definition. However, the practice of allowing the attention to wander during prayer is something that one should seek to avoid. Corrected.

It seems Pearl that here the innovation you were referring to was the intention itself of using Oud to concentrate on the remembrance and/or the practice of concentrating on the Oud scent at the outset of prayer to build focus hoping thereby that after the Takbiratul Ihram the focus would then turn towards the remembrance. You were not referring to the effect itself which is that the attention is diverted towards Oud during the prayer which I think no one would disagree should be avoided and mostly likely does happen. After all what could a person be thinking of during prayer if right after saying salaam the hand goes up to the nose to get a whiff. If for some Oud or any other aromatic usually draws alot of their attention towards it during prayer then probably best to avoid it.

Setting the effect aside and thinking about the intention and the practice, can those be called an innovation as in the legal term? Best left for a jurist to respond to.

The intention itself of using something as a means of drawing closer to Allah subhanau wa ta'la is a complex topic. This drawing closer not directly referring to growing in rank but that of remembering him more and there by drawing closer. All actions being judged by their intentions, the intention of using Oud can change the action from a praiseworthy/rewarding one to being objectionable and blameworthy. May Allah swt protect us from that.

To emulate the path of the chosen one (as in fumigating with it) alaihis salaam
To ponder and reflect on the beauty and variety that God has placed on this planet and through it 'see' his beauty and perfection through the heart's discernment.
These and other intentions can make using Oud praiseworthy of course, otherwise it can just become a veil like any other part of creation that distracts from the creator in or outside of prayer.

Wearing perfume for prayer would not have been practiced by the Prophet alaihi asalam if it did not benefit the one praying and those witnessing and what benefit is there whilst one is distracted. So the intention itself of wearing Oud/perfume to benefit while praying we would agree would not be wrong. Now the intention of wearing perfume to concentrate during prayer (if it truly helps) would that be wrong? Why would one intend to concentrate during prayer if not intending to benefit from prayer and intending to draw closer to Allah azza wa jal?

Talking about the practice of focusing on Oud in and of itself just prior to prayer which seemed to me what you were referring to, I would agree does seem incorrect. At that point one would ideally be emptying the heart/mind of all such cares and attachments and be entering in a state of presence, awe, gratitude, fear, shyness etc.
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
I disagree, allow me to elaborate based on my understanding of bid'ah (innovation away from that which is in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sunnah). Hadith tells us that the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, adored and wore fragrance, that is Sunnah and permissible during performance of Salat. If denotes situational condition, if someone concentrates and occupies the heart on fragrance in hopes of it helping to center focus during prayer, as some do to center focus during yoga/meditation, that is innovation away from Qur'an, Hadith, and the practice of Rasoulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam; bid'ah.
With due respect, Sir, jurisprudence is not ‘what I perceive, understand or think’. It is a definitive one. The very nucleus of the definition of ‘bida’h’ includes: …anything that is introduced to the religion Islam as obligatory, and the one who doesn’t act upon that is a sinner. Second, bida’h by definition replaces some authentic and established ‘sunna’h’.

Setting the effect aside and thinking about the intention and the practice, can those be called an innovation as in the legal term? Best left for a jurist to respond to.
Great. May you live long, respected Fahad.
Wearing perfume for prayer would not have been practiced by the Prophet alaihi asalam if it did not benefit the one praying and those witnessing and what benefit is there whilst one is distracted. So the intention itself of wearing Oud/perfume to benefit while praying we would agree would not be wrong. Now the intention of wearing perfume to concentrate during prayer (if it truly helps) would that be wrong? Why would one intend to concentrate during prayer if not intending to benefit from prayer and intending to draw closer to Allah azza wa jal?
Talking about the practice of focusing on Oud in and of itself just prior to prayer which seemed to me what you were referring to, I would agree does seem incorrect. At that point one would ideally be emptying the heart/mind of all such cares and attachments and be entering in a state of presence, awe, gratitude, fear, shyness etc.

:praying:
Exactly this is what we all agree on. Otherwise, the way soft velvety Turkish carpet averts my mind in the mosque, nothing else does so. Poor me. Intention and priority.

Peace and cheers!
 

Shabby

Junior Member
I once heard a wonderful story about a man who was being lectured by an 'exoterist':

'Brother, you cannot do that, in Sahih Bukhari, it says....'
'And you cannot do that either, because in Sahih Bukhari, the Prophet (a.s.) says....'
'Brother, that is bida'h, we can see in Sahih Bukhari that the Messenger of God (a.s.) said....'

To which the man responded,

'Tell me brother, did the Prophet (a.s.) ever consult Sahih Bukhari? This is truly a grave bida'h'.

:Roflmao:
 

tyson

Oud Alchemist
Lately i have come to understand more of the powers of attuning to the agarwood resin"ation . In my ceremonies i gently heat a tiny shard of of the kynam or kyara or a resinoid of very high caliper wild wood on a hot plate , i deeply inhale at very close proximity , and can even do what i call the eternal breath were your always inhaling and exhaling at the same time , then ill fully breath in and using the breath with the kundalini or chi align myself with its frequency , i find agarwood used in this way further ignites the inner fire and with the breath and prayer i go up up and up in freq , which then at a certain Height you start to vibrate your pattern of your dna into other fields of density , or other dimentional awarness , this is entering the dreamtime state , were your consciously dreaming and awake . This process you sit in the fires of your own creation and burn off all that no longer serves it brings up all lower stuff for transmutation , nothing can be brought up unless its purified. I feel agarwood while not psycoactive helps you become psycoactive , as you natural produce dmt which is the most psycoactive substance you can possible imagine , were literally built for this . This is the alchemical process of lead to gold , you are it. Nothing helps me more in my ceremonies than agarwood in reaching higher states of consciousness. Like a tuning fork ringing that sets off another tuning fork just by brining it over to the one ringing . In this way i empty myself that the agarwood may set me ringing with its resin-or reson'ation. This feels like the language of the trees to me , to truely resonate with there knowledge and guide us back home
 
Top