What do we feel about cost of Oud oils?

[Ouddict]

@Rai Munir the main reason for samples is to train the nose. Reigons, notes, signatures, styles etc. Also samples are more affordable and less risky and a wise move before buying a full bottle. @Ouddict knows how much i love collecting samples lol

Habz786 is a sample ..... (fill in the blank - we have young people on this forum)

 

[Ouddict]

Also Kesiro is moaning and sulking that he cant keep up with Ouddict, stick to Gaharu as most of the time your reading your own posts. In regards to reffering to us as hypocrites because we praised an oil that contains real kinam and costs 3500$. Go work out the price of Kinam and do some maths, secondly its the first oil of its kind for sale so we congratulate @Al Shareef Oudh for this, i sense your burnt up maybe for some weird reason take a chill pill. Its an oil which is more special than the oils you are used to praising, just wait til you dont buy something and get told to get lost lol. Also he says hes humble student then calls people names your as good as your master and boss keep up the good work you may get a promotion. I own expensive oils just because we call for fairer pricing doesnt mean we cant praise expensive oils that are worth praise

@Alkhadra you are kind of correct with your statment over at the dark side but a more accurate version would be "Ouddict is not one person but Gaharu is about 3"

@Kesiro is also a member on this forum. We extend that courtesy to him and his ilk, but the same tolerance is not forthcoming from Gaharu. Not surprised when its owned by Ensar Oud.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

@Kesiro is also a member on this forum. We extend that courtesy to him and his ilk, but the same tolerance is not forthcoming from Gaharu. Not surprised when its owned by Ensar Oud.

I'm not with your mind .

But sincerely I really wonder how fast Luigi improved his english since last time when he called me : the guy with the hair.
Must have become an english teacher since !

 

[Ouddict]

I think overall prices have setteld and the Oud scene has changed alot over the last year or so. Ouddicts are more educated now and there is more than just a few narratives of the scene. Also many new trusted vendors have helped up the ante and competition always helps with pricing. Also the markets alot more open now due to knowledge and we are all the students. There will always be expensive oils for that niche of the market (the rich), were as before most oil were 400$ plus now we have a nice range of top quality oils for less and more people get to enjoy Oud not just the wealthy.

Well there have been some gems released over the past year such as Laos 95 from Agarwood Assam and at an unbelievable price range.

 

[AbasFrag]

I have a friend here in sweden who is an ouddict but he is not a member of any forum online.

I found it very interesting when he said: "Have you noticed that oud prices all of a sudden, after years of increasing, now suddenly has started to decrease? It must be because of that ouddict forum"

I as an oud costumer/ consumer really thank God first and foremost and then the ones who made this forum and all contributing members and vendors for this

 

[Ouddict]

I have a friend here in sweden who is an ouddict but he is not a member of any forum online.

I found it very interesting when he said: "Have you noticed that oud prices all of a sudden, after years of increasing, now suddenly has started to decrease? It must be because of that ouddict forum"

I as an oud costumer/ consumer really thank God first and foremost and then the ones who made this forum and all contributing members and vendors for this

For sure the forum has shed light on many things going on in the Oud industry and we are lucky to have vendors onboard who have helped in bringing prices to a fairer level for all. We have also taken a lot of hits for our efforts as everyone knows.

I do not know how sustainable low prices are into the future. It may be that what is now sold as Oud will give way to something else which is still Oud, but not the same quality. Time will tell.

 

[Habz786]

I have a friend here in sweden who is an ouddict but he is not a member of any forum online.

I found it very interesting when he said: "Have you noticed that oud prices all of a sudden, after years of increasing, now suddenly has started to decrease? It must be because of that ouddict forum"

I as an oud costumer/ consumer really thank God first and foremost and then the ones who made this forum and all contributing members and vendors for this

Whether people accept it or not deep down they know this community has contributed to the fair pricing of Oud in a once closed controlled market. People make this out to be like "oh they are chepskates wanting everything cheap" thats not the case and you see how many gifts and acts of charity have come out since. Ouddicts were calling out for a farier market where marketing is pushed aside and oil/price ratio was decent. Most vendors gave in to this request of Ouddicts which is nice of them but some were left with not much choice as the competition was simply outdoing them which will no doubt affect sales. Now we see a market where there are Ouds from a low, medium, high and very high price range catering for all different people. Thats what we wanted not all Oud to be cheap we understand high grade distillation cost more, we wanted more of a variety of pricing to suit different peoples needs so Oud isnt just enjoyed by the wealthy.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

Whether people accept it or not deep down they know this community has contributed to the fair pricing of Oud in a once closed controlled market. People make this out to be like "oh they are chepskates wanting everything cheap" thats not the case and you see how many gifts and acts of charity have come out since. Ouddicts were calling out for a farier market where marketing is pushed aside and oil/price ratio was decent. Most vendors gave in to this request of Ouddicts which is nice of them but some were left with not much choice as the competition was simply outdoing them which will no doubt affect sales. Now we see a market where there are Ouds from a low, medium, high and very high price range catering for all different people. Thats what we wanted not all Oud to be cheap we understand high grade distillation cost more, we wanted more of a variety of pricing to suit different peoples needs so Oud isnt just enjoyed by the wealthy.

Yeh just start to read krugger post.
See how much he dares playing Taha defensor acusing ouddict to have "murdered taha" whereas his boss made a real torture on Taha's oils in the screenshots.

No wonder they keep insisting on saying they transform resin into oil or saying Tyson you should have warned us on your intention with the wood we wouldnt have glued it.

0 shame normaly when you face screenshots like this minimum you hide yourself.

I admire such self confidence !!!

 

[Ouddict]

Whether people accept it or not deep down they know this community has contributed to the fair pricing of Oud in a once closed controlled market. People make this out to be like "oh they are chepskates wanting everything cheap" thats not the case and you see how many gifts and acts of charity have come out since. Ouddicts were calling out for a farier market where marketing is pushed aside and oil/price ratio was decent. Most vendors gave in to this request of Ouddicts which is nice of them but some were left with not much choice as the competition was simply outdoing them which will no doubt affect sales. Now we see a market where there are Ouds from a low, medium, high and very high price range catering for all different people. Thats what we wanted not all Oud to be cheap we understand high grade distillation cost more, we wanted more of a variety of pricing to suit different peoples needs so Oud isnt just enjoyed by the wealthy.

For sure, not all Oud is cheap and this #MOCA (Make Oud Cheap Again) deliberately set out to mock (pun intended) our efforts at highlighting the fact that good Oud does not have to cost your life savings.

 

[Ouddict]

Yeh just start to read krugger post.
See how much he dares playing Taha defensor acusing ouddict to have "murdered taha" whereas his boss made a real torture on Taha's oils in the screenshots.

Now wonder they keep insisting on saying they transform resin into oil or saying Tyson you should have warned us on your intention with the wood we wouldnt have glued it.

0 shame normaly when you face screenshots like this minimum you hide yourself.

I admire such self confidence !!!

It isn't self-confidence. It is brass-necked arrogance from someone who has got away with it for so long. As for Taha, he is fundamentally a decent guy and looked up to Ensar (as did I) as the Oud reference point. Unfortunately, it took him back into the lion's den at Gaharu where he thought - wrongly - that Ensar had "reformed". I cannot understand why Taha did not ask why after years of vitriol and abuse from Ensar towards him, why he did not question Ensar's motives in warmly inviting him onto Gaharu. While Taha was on Gaharu praising Ensar and being friendly with a former abuser, the abuser was busy slandering him privately behind his back to all and sundry... I have been there myself.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

It isn't self-confidence. It is brass-necked arrogance from someone who has got away with it for so long. As for Taha, he is fundamentally a decent guy and looked up to Ensar (as did I) as the Oud reference point. Unfortunately, it took him back into the lion's den at Gaharu where he thought - wrongly - that Ensar had "reformed". I cannot understand why Taha did not ask why after years of vitriol and abuse from Ensar towards him, why he did not question Ensar's motives in warmly inviting him onto Gaharu. While Taha was on Gaharu praising Ensar and being friendly with a former abuser, the abuser was busy slandering him privately behind his back to all and sundry... I have been there myself.

Because as many sellers they are afraid to lose clients... Now you know why they lose clients...

Taha can complain, I dont hesitate in private to say that I got many feedback from people I know that he teached them what he learnt and he has lot of credit for it ...

 

[Bilalw]

Good advice from @Ammar a sample should be initially used quick, ive purchased full bottles based on samples that were oxidised so wasnt too happy when they smelt different!

This happened to me also. But, after some time the bottle will come to match the sample when on the skin. Is this true for u?

 

[AbasFrag]

This happened to me also. But, after some time the bottle will come to match the sample when on the skin. Is this true for u?

Yes that's how it is for me. The big difference is in the opening for me

 

[Nikhil S]

Some oils, unintentionally, aged in storage have improved for my taste. Opposite to that are my Hindi oils which are presented to us in early phases. They will take their time to beautify. E.g. Compare Zak s aged Lushai to his non aged Mr Barn. One thing I have honestly come to realise, although I am not sure about it is, that artisans sell us already pre-aged oils or oils which are literally beautiful even when new. Maybe benefit from evolved techniques so these oxidise faster. I am not sure though.

 

[Bilalw]

Yes that's how it is for me. The big difference is in the opening for me

So I considered it a bonus top note lol

 

[Bilalw]

Some oils, unintentionally, aged in storage have improved for my taste. Opposite to that are my Hindi oils which are presented to us in early phases. They will take their time to beautify. E.g. Compare Zak s aged Lushai to his non aged Mr Barn. One thing I have honestly come to realise, although I am not sure about it is, that artisans sell us already pre-aged oils or oils which are literally beautiful even when new. Maybe benefit from evolved techniques so these oxidise faster. I am not sure though.

Tony has a method he is using that flips the container and throws fresh air into it repeatedly for many hours. He considers this to artificially age the oil. I got a bottle of something nice where he tested this method. I couldn't really see any improvement , but I didn't compare between new and old...

 

[Mandeel AlMandeel]

Tony has a method he is using that flips the container and throws fresh air into it repeatedly for many hours. He considers this to artificially age the oil. I got a bottle of something nice where he tested this method. I couldn't really see any improvement , but I didn't compare between new and old...

Use the air for effects the oil are popular with traders and they have other technique like using microwave well I prefer getting fresh oil and aging by myself better than open the cap and let air make the aging it will make the oil smell better even will be more thicker but with more time the oil will lose many compounds...

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Some oils, unintentionally, aged in storage have improved for my taste. Opposite to that are my Hindi oils which are presented to us in early phases. They will take their time to beautify. E.g. Compare Zak s aged Lushai to his non aged Mr Barn. One thing I have honestly come to realise, although I am not sure about it is, that artisans sell us already pre-aged oils or oils which are literally beautiful even when new. Maybe benefit from evolved techniques so these oxidise faster. I am not sure though.

I can respond to this a little bit...

In general I don't talk about my techniques much - I choose to talk about the oil. In the end, the scent is what matters, and I don't like how some vendors talked on and on about "technique" that in my opinion - ended up confusing or misleading people. Lord knows I got enough messages from folks bitching about their confusion.

Oud for me is quite simple - and it's easier shown than said. Maybe I need to make some short videos of me making tea - as my approach comes largely from techniques from the kitchen. Anyone who cooks would "get" how simple this can be.

Regarding your question about aging...

Some oils come out smelling incredible and, in my opinion, are ready for sale. Others I shelve and age for 6-12 months or 2-3 years. No rhyme or reason to it other than sometimes too many things are in the shop, and other times I need something to add in and so one comes off the bench and up to bat.

I find it really interesting how quickly some vendors sell out of their oils. I don't know if more people are buying their oils than mine, or if I am distilling more than they are. Literally some of my oils have been in the shop since I opened it. I don't get how an oil sells out in a week or a day, unless there was just 3 or 6 grams of it to sell.

I bring this up because I have oils on in the shop that 'age as they sell'. They've been in the shop since their release. If it's taking me three years to sell off an oil - that oil will be different today than it was when I started selling it. This in part may answer your question about aging...by the time one gets around to trying something, it may have some age on it - and of course, it'll continue to age on your own shelf.

Conversely, when I lived in France, I lived in the capital of wine producing region. At the wine festival, the new wines would come out and people could literally tell how long to suggest aging of wine before drinking it. They would taste it and know that it would be ready in two years, or better to wait 15 or 20 years Siri could be drunk at it's optimal point. I think this is true with a Oud oils, as well. Sometimes you can tell that a few years down the road...whoa!

I think one of the greatest disservices some vendors have done is to lead people into thinking that we vendors distill every single oil we sell. For me - oils pre-dating 2012 are definitely going to not have been commissioned by me (as I started commissioning distillations in 2012). Most of those oils, however - are distilled by the people I distill with. So their DNA is already part of mine, so to speak.

Other oils, like some of the oils I've sold from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are oils I've "picked up along the way". Some are acquired by collectors, others by trusted vendors I work with.

The disservice I think that has been done to the community - is that every vendor does this. People have been led to believe by some vendors that they are not doing this. It's pretty obvious that not every oil being sold is distilled in-house. But I get enough messages and read enough on these message boards to get the feeling that people kind of understand this, but also are surprised to learn that not every oil sold by a vendor is distilled by them.

I bring this point up again - because this bleeds into your question about oils being pre-aged.

I also find it a little silly to compare one vendor to another on some oils, as an oil from one vendor may be more or less fresh, while another vendor is selling an oil distilled 12 or 15 or 20 years ago. They aren't a 1:1 comparison, The same way that comparing the newly vinted wine to a cellared wine - even from the same vineyard - makes not a good comparison.

Hope that adds some clarity to your question about fresh and pre-aging oils

 

[Ouddict]

I can respond to this a little bit...

In general I don't talk about my techniques much - I choose to talk about the oil. In the end, the scent is what matters, and I don't like how some vendors talked on and on about "technique" that in my opinion - ended up confusing or misleading people. Lord knows I got enough messages from folks bitching about their confusion.

Oud for me is quite simple - and it's easier shown than said. Maybe I need to make some short videos of me making tea - as my approach comes largely from techniques from the kitchen. Anyone who cooks would "get" how simple this can be.

Regarding your question about aging...

Some oils come out smelling incredible and, in my opinion, are ready for sale. Others I shelve and age for 6-12 months or 2-3 years. No rhyme or reason to it other than sometimes too many things are in the shop, and other times I need something to add in and so one comes off the bench and up to bat.

I find it really interesting how quickly some vendors sell out of their oils. I don't know if more people are buying their oils than mine, or if I am distilling more than they are. Literally some of my oils have been in the shop since I opened it. I don't get how an oil sells out in a week or a day, unless there was just 3 or 6 grams of it to sell.

I bring this up because I have oils on in the shop that 'age as they sell'. They've been in the shop since their release. If it's taking me three years to sell off an oil - that oil will be different today than it was when I started selling it. This in part may answer your question about aging...by the time one gets around to trying something, it may have some age on it - and of course, it'll continue to age on your own shelf.

Conversely, when I lived in France, I lived in the capital of wine producing region. At the wine festival, the new wines would come out and people could literally tell how long to suggest aging of wine before drinking it. They would taste it and know that it would be ready in two years, or better to wait 15 or 20 years Siri could be drunk at it's optimal point. I think this is true with a Oud oils, as well. Sometimes you can tell that a few years down the road...whoa!

I think one of the greatest disservices some vendors have done is to lead people into thinking that we vendors distill every single oil we sell. For me - oils pre-dating 2012 are definitely going to not have been commissioned by me (as I started commissioning distillations in 2012). Most of those oils, however - are distilled by the people I distill with. So their DNA is already part of mine, so to speak.

Other oils, like some of the oils I've sold from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are oils I've "picked up along the way". Some are acquired by collectors, others by trusted vendors I work with.

The disservice I think that has been done to the community - is that every vendor does this. People have been led to believe by some vendors that they are not doing this. It's pretty obvious that not every oil being sold is distilled in-house. But I get enough messages and read enough on these message boards to get the feeling that people kind of understand this, but also are surprised to learn that not every oil sold by a vendor is distilled by them.

I bring this point up again - because this bleeds into your question about oils being pre-aged.

I also find it a little silly to compare one vendor to another on some oils, as an oil from one vendor may be more or less fresh, while another vendor is selling an oil distilled 12 or 15 or 20 years ago. They aren't a 1:1 comparison, The same way that comparing the newly vinted wine to a cellared wine - even from the same vineyard - makes not a good comparison.

Hope that adds some clarity to your question about fresh and pre-aging oils

Some really valid and important points there JK... I have (almost) given up trying to explain the obvious to people who have just encountered Oud in the past 12 months and think they are experts after sampling a few oils . After all, what do you and I know? We only have a couple of decades experience between us.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

I can respond to this a little bit...

In general I don't talk about my techniques much - I choose to talk about the oil. In the end, the scent is what matters, and I don't like how some vendors talked on and on about "technique" that in my opinion - ended up confusing or misleading people. Lord knows I got enough messages from folks bitching about their confusion.

Oud for me is quite simple - and it's easier shown than said. Maybe I need to make some short videos of me making tea - as my approach comes largely from techniques from the kitchen. Anyone who cooks would "get" how simple this can be.

Regarding your question about aging...

Some oils come out smelling incredible and, in my opinion, are ready for sale. Others I shelve and age for 6-12 months or 2-3 years. No rhyme or reason to it other than sometimes too many things are in the shop, and other times I need something to add in and so one comes off the bench and up to bat.

I find it really interesting how quickly some vendors sell out of their oils. I don't know if more people are buying their oils than mine, or if I am distilling more than they are. Literally some of my oils have been in the shop since I opened it. I don't get how an oil sells out in a week or a day, unless there was just 3 or 6 grams of it to sell.

I bring this up because I have oils on in the shop that 'age as they sell'. They've been in the shop since their release. If it's taking me three years to sell off an oil - that oil will be different today than it was when I started selling it. This in part may answer your question about aging...by the time one gets around to trying something, it may have some age on it - and of course, it'll continue to age on your own shelf.

Conversely, when I lived in France, I lived in the capital of wine producing region. At the wine festival, the new wines would come out and people could literally tell how long to suggest aging of wine before drinking it. They would taste it and know that it would be ready in two years, or better to wait 15 or 20 years Siri could be drunk at it's optimal point. I think this is true with a Oud oils, as well. Sometimes you can tell that a few years down the road...whoa!

I think one of the greatest disservices some vendors have done is to lead people into thinking that we vendors distill every single oil we sell. For me - oils pre-dating 2012 are definitely going to not have been commissioned by me (as I started commissioning distillations in 2012). Most of those oils, however - are distilled by the people I distill with. So their DNA is already part of mine, so to speak.

Other oils, like some of the oils I've sold from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are oils I've "picked up along the way". Some are acquired by collectors, others by trusted vendors I work with.

The disservice I think that has been done to the community - is that every vendor does this. People have been led to believe by some vendors that they are not doing this. It's pretty obvious that not every oil being sold is distilled in-house. But I get enough messages and read enough on these message boards to get the feeling that people kind of understand this, but also are surprised to learn that not every oil sold by a vendor is distilled by them.

I bring this point up again - because this bleeds into your question about oils being pre-aged.

I also find it a little silly to compare one vendor to another on some oils, as an oil from one vendor may be more or less fresh, while another vendor is selling an oil distilled 12 or 15 or 20 years ago. They aren't a 1:1 comparison, The same way that comparing the newly vinted wine to a cellared wine - even from the same vineyard - makes not a good comparison.

Hope that adds some clarity to your question about fresh and pre-aging oils

Very interresting points there JK.

I share your point in giving details about distillation but clients ask for this because used with this kind of details used previously by some sellers as quality label. So I feel pressed to do so without giving too much details.

Why not after all ? Maybe because you are right again, sometimes it's missleading.

I start to see new wave of clients trying to explain details on distillation according to what they heard, more specificicaly about what they think having understand.


Problem when you distill, you must give basic details without saying too much to not disclose what makes you unique and most of time, client is lost in translation.

Thing is oud is pricey and people want to know what they are buying...

So where to start and where to stop ?

And where did you live exactly in France ?